Der Zeitgeist

"Faith, belief" - you guys toss these around like they are hard truths and it is starting to irritate.  Second is the black and white calculus that anyone does not align with as "defeatists etc".
We are not investing billions, in the middle of post-pandemic recession, and risking a slow roll towards nuclear Armageddon because we have "faith and hope" that anyone will "do the right thing" - a concept we cannot even agree on internally.
We are doing it because of what we know.  We know Russia cannot win this war and we know Ukraine cannot lose the peace.  A significant portion of the populations of the west don't have faith in their own governments, let alone one 7-time zones away.
I honestly have watched the Ukrainian government steer a brilliant narrative, a few missteps but rock solid.  But Reconstruction/Post Conflict is like wedding - everyone loses their freaking minds!
You want to propose a non-negotiable push to the pre-2014 borders, then you need to answer the question of how to deal with those regions who have been outside of Ukraine for 8 years, because that post-game show directly impacts what we know.   
 

Not suggesting anything of the sort.  I am asking "FancyCat" how he thinks post-conflict will go down post-conflict.
Also, I am not going to subscribe to "how dare you that is internal business" when we stand as significant stakeholders in this conflict and post-conflict.  
Of course, I do not think Ukraine will behave as the Russians, they have already demonstrated this in the prosecution of this war.  However, in all those past experiences the narrative of "just gives us the money and stay out of our business" does not fly, and will not fly for this war.  The west is going to make a long-term commitment to Ukraine (we had better) and Ukraine will need to make a reciprocal commitment back, that very much includes what we are talking about.
Once again, you do not have to like it or even listen to me, but I will bet a c-note that these sorts conversations are happening in the halls of power in the west right now.

Whoa, so you are saying that because of Russian war crimes, which absolutely no one is disagreeing with, democratic rights will be denied to the citizens of these regions?  Indefinitely, it kind of sounds like you are promoting here, or at least a generation or two?
Donbass and Crimea cannot have democracy because Russia killed off all the true-Ukrainians?
So instead of Ukrainians being oppressed by Russians, we are trading people who see themselves as Russian being oppressed by Ukrainians?  
And we are back to Afghanistan...
I honestly hope and strongly believe that the grown ups in Kyiv do not agree with what I think you are suggesting in the least, at least based on how well they have managed this war and its narratives so far.
I do hope you can see my point that this a lot more complicated than win/loss, particularly when you tie those to lines on a map.  I honestly hope and pray that justice is served to the Russians responsible for these crimes and this war are brought to account.  I also strongly hope that as we look to investing hundreds of billions of dollars into Ukraine we will get a fully modern democratic partner that quickly and fairly ensures all its citizens are fully enfranchised and protected by its laws.  I fervently hope that the post-conflict phase sees reconciliation and, if need be, realignments that reflect the will of the people - all done with the support of the international community.
Here is the crazy thing about war, once the shooting stops, the hard part really begins.
 

Now here is a very important question: Will Ukraine support free and fair (UN monitored) elections in these regions in order to allow citizens to decide their own nationality?  Will Ukraine honor the choices made in these regions, even if the vote in significant areas leads to secession?
More to the point, will Ukraine concede land to a democratic process?  I think there is a mountain of evidence of Russian interference; however, there is clearly also a deeper issue here as well.  One that should be addressed through democratic process.

Photo from the Samarkand summit. Note who's missing on the picture.

It's like I said several times already. Germany is scared of "Alleingänge". If you want weapons from them, increase the pressure until not delivering stuff becomes the "Alleingang".

It's like I said several times already. Germany is scared of "Alleingänge". If you want weapons from them, increase the pressure until not delivering stuff becomes the "Alleingang".

Welcome anyway, espionage in the 60', 70's and 80's is also fascinating, so thank you for this title. I bought the kindle version.

Outside your preferred timeframe, but anyway:
I greatly enjoyed reading "The Billion Dollar Spy" by David E. Hoffmann, which tells the story of Adolf Tolkachev, a Soviet engineer who worked as a CIA agent in the early 80s and gave up detailed information about various Soviet missile and radar systems.

I must say, on the entire nuclear issue:
One good thing this war has shown is that nukes don't help. Sure, they can prevent the West from directly intervening, but they don't help you win a war by themselves. You can be the strongest nuclear power on earth but in the end, it's all just useless holes in the ground with missiles and warheads in them, a huge waste of money and resources with no military application whatsoever, even in the greatest war your country has ever fought.

I must say, on the entire nuclear issue:
One good thing this war has shown is that nukes don't help. Sure, they can prevent the West from directly intervening, but they don't help you win a war by themselves. You can be the strongest nuclear power on earth but in the end, it's all just useless holes in the ground with missiles and warheads in them, a huge waste of money and resources with no military application whatsoever, even in the greatest war your country has ever fought.

Especially with the war still running and Putin still in power. I don't think we ever had a constellation like this with war crime trials before. Not much they can do about it, though. Can't exactly invade the Netherlands.

Just like in Lord of the Rings, how they filmed Gandalf and Bilbo with these forced perspective tricks. 😅

Just like in Lord of the Rings, how they filmed Gandalf and Bilbo with these forced perspective tricks. 😅

About that fridge in RU with UKR warranty story. RU declared the whole video (made by a well know RU blogger) as UKR fake citing the sticker as the proof (meaning it was filmed in UKR not RU). 
And for the reference reality could be very boring - There is a RU site for public review of different things. This is a review of a fridge published on 21.08.2020. It says: "We bought this device in 2013 in a large chain store. The delivery cost only 10,899 rubles. They brought it with a warranty card in Ukrainian, the sticker about the two-year warranty was also in Ukrainian, although we live in Russia."
Here is a photo of the sticker.
 

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.

Biden should make it vert clear, albeit quietly, that every "unexplained accidents" in the Western energy sector will be met with truly massive increases in aid to Ukraine. A brigade worth of Bradleys and Abrams level massive. Or a couple of squadrons of F-16s with top grade AAMs and guided bombs.

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.

You and me both; it is a riddle that I cannot solve either.  I cannot see the crisis that forced the hand.  Russia under Putin had demonstrated deliberate actions and nuance in its strategies up until now, it is one of the major reasons they kept getting away with it.  We remained in a null decision space on Russia, it was undecidable.  In many circles people were openly talking about “simply accepting Crimea and moving on”.  Russia looked to be the masters of the chess game.  Subversive warfare, hybrid warfare and “grey zone” had led them to a string of strategic coups that we were all admiring and referring to as “Gerasimov Doctrine” and such.  Some forays into the near abroad that were pretty scary examples of reflexive control.  We scared ourselves with wargames that saw Russia tearing through the Baltics in hours.
And then a major conventional action against a sovereign nation that went pear shape in the first 72 hours…sure why not.  An invasion that looks like its primary fuel was hubris and progressive unreality - far too few forces, zero operational pre-conditions and an joint warfare cautionary tale that will be in the history books for at least a century.
Why?  Why now?  Why not stick with the A-game?  Why throw it all away on as poorly weighted dice throw as we have seen since Saddam’s Kuwait gambit?
Perhaps a historian will give us the answer one day, but until then this war will remain a mystery to me.

Not gonna happen for several generations even in most favourable circumstances. Too much of Russian collective identity is connected to imperialism. Even much more advanced and less bellicose civil societies have problems running pluralistic stable political systems.
 
Kremlin propaganda weights heavily on relativism and inablity to see proportions of things. It always puzzled me in Russian mentality, frankly- while Western consciousness was usually gravitating toward achievieng rational balance ("centre"), Russians seem to dwell on paradoxes and borderlines. They collectivelly really at some level stayed medieval, when everything between Heaven and Hell was malliable, negotiable and wortless. In such manicheic world every cruelty is real, every conspiracy imaginable; "state of things" is generally impossible to rationally comprehend nor understand.
That's why they so massively believe (which does not mean 100% support) in any absurd state propaganda cooked for them. Ukrainians crucifying kids in Donbas? Sure, why not. Defenders of Mariupol shelling themselves by thousands? Yeah, entirely believable. 80% or the world suddenly becoming Nazi conspiracy? Just connect dots...
No strange that Russian propaganda catches to so many people in our "liquid" postmodern world seen through social media lens. And when reality does not exist, state power is the only thing that stands between society and chaos- It's cornerstone of society. Soviet Union with its absurd amount of repression and violence was only peak of that very long, historical feeling. Its tytanic geopolitical fight with US actually correspond very well to manicheic vision two, constantly struggling powers in the world.
And if somebody think this vision is too much out-of-the-world anthropology trying to cover basic political opportunism- let's imagine Putin alienated in his apartments during covid epidemic, sorrounded by Russian historical books...

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.

This "both sides" whataboutism is entirely pointless in a war where one side is engaged in an aggressive war of conquest against a defending neighbouring country. It's a useless distraction, and a transparent attempt to create moral equivalency where no such thing can exist.