L0ckAndL0ad

http://rt.com/news/256437-armata-stuck-moscow-parade/
 

 

Lock....He ABSOLUTELY countered your arguments. You are simply too stubborn, or too much of a Russia fanboi to accept any position counter to your own. You "do not know 100%,
but are absolutely certain of your predictions" is utter nonsense. You don't even know 50%, as I doubt you work in the development of said weapons, and all you look at are pictures of "prototypes".
 
Nobody is right or wrong for at least some years ahead, when actual deployments/specifications/etc. are available.
 
The key word here for you is "faith", nothing more.

Jokes aside, it was interesting to see the photos and the movies of these new russian vehicles. Thanks to the folks posting those links (and to the discussion in general)

Cut-out on left-side appears to be for the ejection port.  This shows clearly how deeply recessed the actual turret wall is behind the outer shell.
 

There's a simple reason why I am certain. ALL of these components have already been proven in tests AND actual vehicles. Thermal jackets for 30mm AC come back from Afghan war ages, 4x Kornet with salvo come from BMP-2M Berezhok upgrade (which are exported to Algeria). Airburst is there since BMP-3 and BTR-82A. LWS come back to Shtora. OLS comes back to Soviet era aircraft and modern ground vehicle's FCS. Even the new steel have already been used in the new MRAPs (Typhoons). New optics package is a mystery, but it obviously contains thermals. Regardless of their quality, the simple fact that there are thermals already makes them better than any other optics package out there on Russian vehicles, because there are no thermals on them (IFVs/APCs, obviously).
 
That's where my certainty comes from. All of these are existing and proven tech.
 
 
I don't believe words. I see what they do. And yes, we have to keep watching, obviously. I am just saying that so far they are showing good stuff.

OMG, guys, really? IFV version has infantry in the back. Of course engine is in the front. Gee...

In terms of looks, my favorite is the Leopard 2:

APS rounds might actually be steerable and self-propelled. After seeing a schematic of Quick Kill APS rounds, I wanted to see how it actually works. And I found this video:
 

 
This way, you can defend against top attacks too. So I guess they work similar.

LOL, no need to wait for May 9th. Pictures from official MoD site:
 
http://мультимедиа.минобороны.рф/multimedia/photo/gallery.htm?id=21804@cmsPhotoGallery
 
 

Since you've picked up space theme analogy below in your post, I'll use it too.
 
 
And look at how it MADE today's USA. The nation that sent men to the Moon. Where would it be now if it didn't? Like I've already said, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious, if you call pull it off, theoretically. And there ARE gains visible if they can pull it off. Mastering advanced technology is good for Russians.
 
 
Being a big space nerd, I'm eager to squish this analogy The difference between going to the GEO and to the Moon is about 0.7km/s of delta-v. Going to stable LEO orbit takes 10 km/s. This deserves another legendary quotation:
 
 
This brings me up to a point where I say that IFV/APC-wise technological leap isn't that big. RWS is a world standard.
 
Tank with an unmanned turret? Yeah, that's way more advanced technology. But then again, Russians have been doing autoloaders for decades. What else in there is so technically difficult to master? I mean the transition from manual, mechanical control, to remote control?

Since you've picked up space theme analogy below in your post, I'll use it too.
 
 
And look at how it MADE today's USA. The nation that sent men to the Moon. Where would it be now if it didn't? Like I've already said, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious, if you call pull it off, theoretically. And there ARE gains visible if they can pull it off. Mastering advanced technology is good for Russians.
 
 
Being a big space nerd, I'm eager to squish this analogy The difference between going to the GEO and to the Moon is about 0.7km/s of delta-v. Going to stable LEO orbit takes 10 km/s. This deserves another legendary quotation:
 
 
This brings me up to a point where I say that IFV/APC-wise technological leap isn't that big. RWS is a world standard.
 
Tank with an unmanned turret? Yeah, that's way more advanced technology. But then again, Russians have been doing autoloaders for decades. What else in there is so technically difficult to master? I mean the transition from manual, mechanical control, to remote control?

Since you've picked up space theme analogy below in your post, I'll use it too.
 
 
And look at how it MADE today's USA. The nation that sent men to the Moon. Where would it be now if it didn't? Like I've already said, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious, if you call pull it off, theoretically. And there ARE gains visible if they can pull it off. Mastering advanced technology is good for Russians.
 
 
Being a big space nerd, I'm eager to squish this analogy The difference between going to the GEO and to the Moon is about 0.7km/s of delta-v. Going to stable LEO orbit takes 10 km/s. This deserves another legendary quotation:
 
 
This brings me up to a point where I say that IFV/APC-wise technological leap isn't that big. RWS is a world standard.
 
Tank with an unmanned turret? Yeah, that's way more advanced technology. But then again, Russians have been doing autoloaders for decades. What else in there is so technically difficult to master? I mean the transition from manual, mechanical control, to remote control?

K!
 
http://www.worldstopexports.com/russias-top-10-exports/2350
 
As of last month, 58% of Russia's net import income came from oil.  The next biggest contribution to their imports clocks in at 4.1% with steel and iron.
 
Here's how that 58% is doing:

http://money.cnn.com/2015/03/31/investing/russia-gazprom-profit/
 
Profits are down 70% for gazprom.
 
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29643612
 
Which is working out swimmingly for the Russian economy!  Which is lovely as even by Putin's sockpuppet admits:

 
 
And by and large, the predictions are the Russian economy is chugging along into another recession.
 
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-12-30/ruble-gains-as-russia-seeks-to-curb-worst-annual-drop-since-1998
 
Which is another rosy picture that the Russian economy is doing worse than it has for a long time, and doing significantly worse than the "good" years of high oil prices.
 
All of these point to a country that is less able to operate at max capacity.  Further it's not just the Russian tank fleet that's best served in the museum, it's the Navy.  It's the Air Force.  It's other AFVs, it's pretty much every piece of equipment is either obsolete in the strictest sense, or qualitatively well behind the west by a measurable degree.  THEN with the reduced ability to import technology and parts (see the MIG-35 article posted) and the need to set up industry to replace said parts...it's getting to be an increasing question of where the money is coming from.  
 
Frankly if Venezuela announced it was going to set up a space program, build its own fighter planes, while oil is tanked and the economy wasn't that great in the first place, and now they're building their own family of AFVs, you'd be just as doubtful about their prospects as I am of the Armata.  The money isn't there, and something has to give.  It might not be the Armata, but something is going to have to be cut to accomplish Russian plans, or the economy is going to have to get a lot better.  
 
Perhaps some economic reinvestment and improved quality of other industrial exports is in order?
 
 
I trust the US DoD, General Dynamics, Boeing, etc, etc, on par with your average lawyer, sales person, or politician.
 
Which is to say I think your faith in those agencies is entirely misplaced.  They all have their own agenda which is you believing they are performing as well as they claim.  And to that end I wouldn't put it past them to have parade floats vs tanks, or claim milestones that will be handily forgotten as they pass because look!! It's a S-400 on an Armata chassis!  Russia strong!  
 
 
It's the fetishization and sexual nature of the thing.  They're selling you this beautiful wonderful hardware as if it is a sign things are good, and you're okay.  It's paranoid state that leverages your fear as a means of glossing over how much it has failed the Russian people.  There was no threat to Russia in 1946 until it invented one.  There was no threat to Russia in 1992 until you invented it again.  There's no military threat to Russia in 2015, and here it is being invented again.
 
The parade itself isn't the problem, it's stealing the blood and sacrifice of the soldiers that the USSR left to fight and freeze, to sell this image of a strong Russian state, while pulling those same soldiers out of their old folks homes to serve as props in an advertisement for this amazing future of facing down the great and many enemies manufactured by the Russian state.  
 
It's disgusting, cheap, and bread and circuses at its best.
 
 
Try this one on:


 
Just as functional as the Armata is now.  Just as vulnerable to being a lot of cutting edge technology not quite working out, at a time in which the country building it couldn't afford to keep pouring money into it.  Development cycle is similar to Armta in terms of length.  Just as needed to replace increasingly obsolete tanks.
 
Unless there's a fundamental superiority to Russians, there's just as much reason to see the MBT-70 as the Armata of the 70's (or perhaps even the Sheridan, cutting edge, but never quite working right), as to see it as hitting the goals for it set forth.

The dog barking at a caravan analogy is getting stronger. In any case, they've pretty much have shown us everything except the various weapon modules.
 
One thing that I want to see is what MG will be mounted on Armata as com. gun. I bet it will be 12.7. 

Yeah, photos all over the place. Light green paint:
 

Yeah, photos all over the place. Light green paint:
 

I thought that Armatas will be everywhere within 7 hours. Like, today. What a letdown.

Purely in a "Modest Proposal" sense it's because they're not real tanks, it's just going to be hundreds of parade float quality vehicles driven around by folks who are sworn to secrecy to present the illusion of the Armata being successful.  Exporting them would let other folks in on the terrible truth.
 
 
I think it's sort of a silly thing.  The sort of "crew is unconscious, but okay!" hits are rare, and given that all crewmen at in the same box now, seems like they'll all be okay or all be goo.
 
The remote operation stuff makes more sense in terms of being able to operate the tank as sort of a defacto remote controlled turret, but it does not look extensive enough to support that (although that might just be the limitations of technology).
 
 
I missed the original Battle Cruiser 3000 fracas, but the follow on Smart behavior remains the gift that keeps giving.

I thought that Armatas will be everywhere within 7 hours. Like, today. What a letdown.

Behold.


 

It is now!
 
http://mil.ru/files/files/parad2015/1-moscow.html
 
For non-Russians, press second link from the right (at the bottom, labeled "ПОРЯДОК ДВИЖЕНИЯ ТЕХНИКИ") and scroll to the right.
 

Wait, there is one other way to do it. You can have them disembark before the vehicle moves.

With no movement orders you can select the passengers (not the vehicle) and give them a dismount command. Then you can give orders to both the passengers and their vehicle. The vehicle will wait for the passengers to disembark and then both will go on their merry way.