Broadsword56

Give those GIs some credit -- they bashed out a few loose bricks and mortar with their entrenching tools, grabbed a metal bar and used it as a battering ram, and managed to poke out a few loopholes in the garage wall. At least that's what I imagine happened. And, since this is a game, a little bit of imagination is needed to fully enjoy it. Especially when it comes to buildings, where we already know that things like micro-cover and interior walls are hugely abstracted in CMBN. Besides, would it make tactical sense for an infantry squad to set up in a completely blind position where they can't see any approaching enemy or fire at them? Seems to me they would only be there if they had also managed to make it a bit more defensively useful (the little unseen loopholes, etc.)

Yes, the 1947 aerial photos are important as a source because many, many hedgerows in Normandy have been removed since the 1940s to make room for more modern mechanized farming. Also, many of the old apple orchards are gone since then.

The French 1947 aerial views are not in Google Earth -- they're on a different site. But once you download the French photos and convert them to standard JPEGs, you can import them into Google Earth as an overlay. Then you can play with the transparency and scaling sliders to match the 1947 terrain exactly with today's Google Earth. Here's the link for the French site: http://loisirs.ign.fr/accueilPVA.do And here's how to use it, step by step. It's a little complicated, but really not too difficult once you walk through it. On the main page, in the "Commune recherchee" search field, just type in the city or town you want to look at (e.g, Saint-Lo, and be sure to include the hyphen). You'll get a list of matches. Scroll to and double-click on the correct one one: Saint-Lo (Manche). Now you'll be in a map view. On the right-hand side of your screen you'll see a scale ("echelle") setting. Place it about halfway between "Dept." and "Ville." On the left side, under "Catalogue," scroll down until you see the items starting with "1947." Place your cursor over any one of them, and you'll get a pop-up window that says which scale it is (1:10000 or 1:25000) and be sure to select one that says "Telechargement gratuite" -- these are the only ones that you can download for free. Once you've selected your photo, put your cursor over the map window and "drag" the map around a bit by holding down your left mouse button. Look for some little bright green "crosshair" symbols on the map that look something like this: [+] Each of those crosshairs is a link to a specific aerial photo. So find the crosshair that's closest to the area you want to examine, and double-click it. A box will pop up, asking if you want to order the download. Click "annuler" (cancel) for now. You'll see a green box on the map, outlining the area covered by that photo. Now if you like that area, go back and select the crosshair and download the photo. Beware -- these are HUGE files and they are in a special format called JP2. To view them or use them for most purposes, or to be able to place them in a Google Earth overlay, you will want to convert them into regular JPEG format. To do this, go to http://www.avs4you.com/AVS-Image-Converter.aspxand download the free AVS image converter software. It's pretty easy to use. Once you have a JPEG image, you can study the terrain in terrific detail.

Would it be possible to use the "double x" fence construction and put one or more lines of real military wire somewhere within it? That would give it the same effect as military wire, but would look like the more elaborate and wider crisscross obstacle shown in your screenshot. Would the mud tile base also increase the risk of vehicles bogging? That would be cool because it would complicate tactic of using a tank to flatten the wire.

Thanks for the aerial, Patboy. Such detailed images really help us understand how the terrain, farm compounds, etc., would have looked. This is a propos of the mod thread about orchards, too -- notice how the orchards have many gaps among the trees, and quite a bit (probably 3 tiles or so?) of space around the perimeter of the planted areas.

Some update screenies on the massive 4km x 4km map, which continues east of LongLeftFlank's "La Meauffe" map and extends the XIX Corps mapped front all the way to the St-Lo-Isigny highway for the July 1944 battles... Today I thought I'd post shots from within the Map Editor -- they show more of the work than 3D views, since this is a map of tiles and hardly any objects on it. In 3D it just looks like a lot of grass and crop patches and roads. But from above in the editor, it looks like this.. And this... Compare it with the 1947 French aerial shots and Google Earth, and you'll find that almost every field and hedgerow are in their actual places. The green lines you see marking the hedgerows are actually just XT Grass tiles. But this will make it very easy to place the hedgerows when cutting out or demarcating a battle area for a scenario. The process of making this is ridiculously, insanely detailed...but I think of it as a sort of quilting project, and patch by patch the map grows into one amazing landscape. I really think the "true" bocage pattern of this map, and the ability to place remote FOs on it, will tilt the tactical balance a bit more toward accurate levels for defending Germans. Once this "clean" object-free map is done, I'll release it to the community. All anyone needs to do is pick an area, and then add whatever additional level of detailing and objects they want. The time-consuming work of elevations, and locating where things go will have already been done. So it will be more of a "paint by numbers" job for anyone to create a finished map out of this big template. It's so vast that it should provide all the bocage terrain that anyone could want for just about any type of scenario.

Thanks for the bump and show of interest. Great progress being made on my map, and I'll post a screenie or two later today... One more thought I had about the way to play on huge 4 x 4 km maps. I've suggested several things, like only putting objects and details in the smaller area you'll be fighting in, marking the boundaries of this smaller battlefield using the "Landmarks" function, and having special setup zones for remote artillery FOs. My new thought is to not only mark a scenario battlefield's boundaries with "Landmark" spots, but also to set up the scenario map with mines all along the edges as a way to enforce those boundaries. Seems like a good way to keep things honest, and if a unit strays over the boundary and blows up, you can always imagine it was killed by a random shellburst. I'm curious to know whether players would consider this frustrating, or helpful?

+1 to the three units. They would look great and be somewhat useful, too. But I'd rather have Medics before those.

As sburke pointed out to me, if I'd given my troops more time to move up that left side of the map and not pushed them to move so quickly, the barrage would have hit ahead of their arrival and the situation might have turned out much differently.

Interesting. If it's not a bug, then one reason I could imagine for this to happen: Trees in an orchard typically are lower and bushier, so the mass of densest foliage (trunks + foliage) is closer to human and vehicle height. In a forest, the canopy of densest foliage is up high. So in a forest, soldiers would tend to see along ground level more easily than in an orchard, since the only thing blocking their LOS are the tree trunks and any lower branches -- unless there's also a lot of underbrush, or the tree trunks are very closely spaced.

This is the one a lot of us have been using -- you can find detailed instructions on how to find and download the 1947 aerial photos of your selected area elsewhere on the forums -- look for the mapping threads. http://www.geoportail.fr/5069711/visu2D/afficher-en-2d.htm?cg=djoxLjEqYzptZXRyb3BvbGUqY3Y6MS4wKnZ2OjEuMSp4eTotMS41NjM4ODE0ODUwMzU5OTg3fDQ5LjI5NTYzNTEwMDM0MTQxKnM6OSpwdjoxLjAqcDpkZWNvdXZlcnRlKmw6UGhvdG98fHwsU2NhbnwxfHw%3D

I'm trying to better understand how victory points can work and ideally should work in a good CMBN scenario. Some questions: 1. How do veteran scenario designers go about setting VP points? Do you decide first that a given scenario is "worth" a total number of VPs (say 1000) and then apportion them (say 800 for various territory locations, 200 for certain friendly or enemy casualty parameters)? How many total VPs is it good to use? 2. How and when do "asymmetrical" victory conditions play a useful role? What's a good way to make the most of this feature? 2. Is there any way to assign the enemy and friendly casualty percentage victory points in "Parameters" so that a given casualty level becomes a game-ending event? For example, if either the defending German side suffers > 60% casualties or the attacking US side suffers 30% casualties, the scenario ends and victory is determined by whatever side has the most VPs at that time? I'm looking for a way to make scenarios end when it would make sense historically, and not just automatically keep running until the final turn runs out and the players have fought to the last man. (When I look at the Parameters screen in Editor, I see that one can assign points for a side inflicting/suffering given percentages of casualties. But it seems that would only count toward a side's victory point total at the end of the scenario (when the clock runs out). And those Parameter points would just be added to whatever other points that side scored for territory, unit objectives, etc.) 3. If I can't make the casualty parameters trigger an immediate end of a scenario, can I make them trigger a scenario loss or victory when the scenario clock runs out? For example: In a 60-turn scenario, if the attacking US side suffers > 30% casualties, it would wipe out any other VPs the US achieved and thus would mean defeat when turn 60 ends. (If Parameter points could be set to a negative value --can they? -- then I guess they could have the effect of wiping out positive VPs earned by territory capture, etc.) Any tips, tricks and advice on this topic are appreciated.

Priceless tips -- thank you everyone. We need to keep more threads like this going because there hasn't been much posted on mapping lately. It's a very deep topic, and the tips shared benefit both the mappers and the users who play the results. My only tip for realistic maps is to map a real place. Use the combination of Google Earth, topographical maps, aerial photos, and historical AARs as sources. The bocage, in particular, has a crazy-quilt nature to the pattern of its fields and hedgerows that I could never dream up on my own.

I had no idea. This is absolutely amazing. Thanks again BFC for another small, yet realistic gem of a feature.

While I couldn't hope to equal the detail and entertainment value of sburke's AAR of our just-finished scenario, I thought I'd post something to answer readers who might look at the US result and wonder, "WTF was that player thinking??" Here's the tactical map showing my initial plan: The mission for the US player is to open the exit roads to the S and SW for the breakout from St-Lo. Standing in the way like a roadblock is The Villa, a walled building and hamlet complex. The other key terrain are the hills to either flank of the map (154 and 144) and a hill at the very top edge behind German lines. Holding the hills allows observation and direct fire onto the town and roads. Attacking The Villa straight up the tree-lined main road would be the quickest and most direct route, but I chose against it -- too obvious, likely to be mined and/or have TRPs registered on it. Plus, even a single AT gun or TD in the hamlet could fire at the head of the column and along the whole length of the road, while the US would be unable to fire back effectively. I also ruled out taking a broader path through the plowed fields adjacent to the main road -- too exposed, and also likely to be mined (as in fact they were). I wanted to isolate The Villa, and attack it from an unexpected direction -- a direction that would also give my Shermans a clear field of fire into the hamlet and give them running room, free of hiding Panzerfausts. I also wanted a covered path for my advance, so my leg infantry would be exposed for as short a time as possible as they approached The Villa. A sweeping route around the left side of the map seemed to offer everything I needed. The armor and infantry could advance together in relative safety, then burst out around Hill 144 and slice diagonally into and around The Villa (#3 on the photo). The armor, once it helped the infantry get a foothold in the hamlet, would continue on and blast its way down the S exit road. I committed a full rifle company and the entire armored company to this spearhead. Platoons were assigned to each of the hills to locate any enemy forces, screen and neutralize them, and flush out any AT guns or other threats so they couldn't harm my advance. The other important job of these platoons was to feint attacks and confuse the enemy about the direction of my main effort. To "sell" the fake, I started with prep bombardments along likely German positions and made a lot of noise with the platoon attacking Hill 154. A pair of attached tanks were to help out with shoot-and-scoot smoke and suppressive fire. But immediately they came under fire from a concealed AT gun in a corner of the woods near The Hay Paddock. This single gun (as you can read in sburke's AAR) turned out to be lethal, nearly indestructible (I had it under 60mm mortar, HMG, and tank HE and MG fire at various times for most of the game), and a huge force multiplier, because its threat closed off half the battlefield and channeled my moves into more confined and covered areas. Both tanks were destroyed by the gun before they could pull back into cover -- the first US setback. The Hill 154 feint went fine -- some skirmishes, pushed the Germans back a bit, stayed in close enough contact to tie down his infantry and prevent him from reinforcing The Villa, or from pulling back to call down an artillery barrage on the hill. The lead elements of my spearhead reached Hill 144 and the screening platoon hunted up the wooded slope. Immediately they hit trouble -- an ambush and devastating MG fire from troops entrenched on a reverse slope. Heavy casualties shook the platoon, units were pinned, and even after I pulled them back to a safer distance the platoon was never the same again. I sent a tank up into the edge of the woods on the hill to give them some emergency help, but it was destroyed fairly quickly. This was aother setback, but at least the platoon accomplished its screening mission -- the Germans on that hill would not be able to surprise or attack the exposed right flank of my spearhead as it passed the hill. German artillery had been strangely quiet thus far. But then it struck, and at the worst possible moment: Just as my infantry and tanks were bunched up and passing through the chokepoint at the corner of Hill 144 (#2 in photo). Chaos erupted as squads hit the dirt, panicked men fled through the smoke and dust, a round scored a direct hit on a halftrack fully loaded with engineers, and shrapnel tore through the thin-canvas tops of the trucks towing 57mm AT guns. These troops were already starting to show fatigue from their long, looping march to the start-line. Now they were shaken and decimated, just as they were due to launch the main attack. No time to catch a breath or take a final smoke break before the jump-off. With artillery raining down, their only hope was to sprint toward The Villa and out from under the barrage, even if it exhausted them. Everything now depended on keeping up the momentum of the armor-infantry attack, so that any new artillery missions the Germans called in would be obsolete and fall on empty ground by the time the shells arrived. The Shermans entered the open field near The Villa and blasted every house and treeline in sight as the US infantry struggled to regroup and catch up. Smoke rounds from the tanks also enveloped the open field in a protective cloak. This suppressive fire soon drove off a number of German infantry and MG teams at the edge of the hamlet, and allowed the US infantry to enter the buildings unmolested. But then the US suffered another wound, this time self-inflicted: I moved one of the platoons approaching the hamlet off to the right flank, without checking whether that area of the field might be exposed to fire from behind Hill 144 (I knew there were enemy forces there, but they had been silent until now and I'd started to forget about them -- thinking maybe that my prep bombardment there had killed or neutralized the enemy in that area). A German gun immediately opened up on the platoon with HE, and within seconds nearly all the squads were wiped out. Also, a Jagdpanzer in that area began popping up from behind a reverse slope and scoring killing hits on some of the Shermans. The infantry fight for the hamlet and Villa was now under way, and I had troops pressing in on The Villa three directions. But the armored force would be unable to continue its sweep around to the south -- that path now looked suicidal. I pulled all the armor back into a relatively safer supporting position in the lee of Hill 144. Once the infantry captured The Villa (you can read about that in detail in sburke's AAR), they were nearly destroyed when the Germans unleashed a retaliatory artillery barrage onto those buildings. To have any hope of success, I had to improvise a Plan B. Leaving one tank in the hamlet to help defend there, I raced the rest of my armor (3 tanks) and any reliable infantry I still had (now mounted in trucks and jeeps) back around the top end of the map, and aimed them at the wheatfield gap on the ridge between Hill 154 and the woods. I launched a big 105mm bombardment all across the reverse slope of that ridge, and planned to make a dash for the gap the moment the barrage lifted. At the same time, my squads on Hill 156 pressed harder into the Germans up there, trying to push them back so that no panzerfaust teams could shoot at my tanks' left flanks from that treeline. Then the final disaster struck: A German 75mm AT gun from across the map knocked out two of my remaining 4 Shermans in quick succession. At that point I realized I didn't have the forces left to attack effectively, and resigned. The mortar crews, postal clerks, mess specialists and other troops who had been designated to make that last attack no doubt breathed a heavy sigh of relief!

Excellent work on this terrain and road mod! The roads are a great improvement, in particular.

I have the same question. But one thing I notice is that American HQ support units have lots of ammo, bazooka, bazooka ammo, etc., on them. So they seem to be very useful for resupply or getting an AT weapon where you need it.

Agreed -- except (1) the plain paved road just didn't look wide enough to me for a Route Nationale, and (2) some people are already modding the terrain tiles (a new one was posted just today), so I figure if I have the highway tiles in place, they'll automatically switch to a better look as that tile type gets improved -- and at the rate these maps are going, there's plenty of time to wait for those better-looking mods! So my road net is the one big highway, then simple paved roads for the ones that show up wider and whiter on the 1947 aerial views, then gravel for the smaller ones, and then dirt for the farm tracks and little connecting roads among the fields -- many of these latter ones will be the "sunken" kind with virtual tunnels of veg around them.

Priceless! You gotta love these little pixel guys.

Can we see some more screenshots showing examples of the changes you've made? I love the idea and appreciate the work you've done -- I just like to see a mod and make sure it looks like an improvement to me before I download/install it.

The beauty of CMBN is that we can change both of these limitations, and make scenarios of any length + maps of huge size if we want. The game's only been out a couple of months yet, so the modders and mappers are really just hitting their stride. Look for lots of bigger and better things to come!

Using tanks as support/assault guns is a good tip, but I keep having this lesson drilled into my thick head: RESPECT THE PANZERFAUST! I can see why the Sherman crews came to imagine a German AT team lurking in every treeline and behind every corner -- and why they'd often withdraw to standoff distance, greatly upsetting the infantry who were counting on them for close support. OTOH, I can also see why the tankers came to mistrust the infantrymen, who were supposed to be spotting/flushing out/suppressing those hidden AT teams ahead of the armor -- instead, I sometimes find the infantry is too busy keeping their heads down/cowering etc., leaving their tank buddies unprotected. Very realistic, and great fun, in a very frustrating way...

This happens because the only kind of arty spotting we can do is with front-line FO units on the battlefield. The game can't model the more effective kind of spotting, which played a huge tactical role in the bocage, because these spotters operated from higher ground and church steeples that would be off-map in CMBN. (See my other posts where I mentioned how we can better simulate this, with defined battlefields inside larger maps, and special setup areas for remote spotters.)

Since we're sharing today, here's a WIP shot of my 4km x 4km adjoining monster map, which continues the 35th Infantry Division AO east to the Saint Lo - Isigny highway (the dark line on the right side of the image). View is from the SE (highest) corner, looking N. You can see a creek valley (marshy at the lowest elevations) that runs roughly N-S. Just off the SSE mapedge would have been Hill 122, The key to the entire St Lo campaign. LLF, we seem to be in sync -- I'm mapping in field areas and roads now, having done the elevation contouring and the major highway (took a while to get all those highway tiles set right!) Like LLF, I'm putting hardly any objects on this map -- the details can be added to cut-out sections when used for scenario battles.

As nice as it would be to see the units have formations and be able to specify them, I'm just as happy not to have this level of micromanagement to worry about. I think, too, that given the game's use of action points, abstracted microterrain, and the way units have to fit into them, things are too abstracted at that level perhaps for formations to really work in CMBN as we'd like them to. I'm gratified, at least, that when infantry units travel on foot along a road, they form a staggered column to either side and don't just walk down the middle of the road.