Zalgiris 1410

I fully agree with BFC Historical accuracy over unrealistic "what ifs" which still means that there are still plenty of realistic non-ahistorical (in theory) "what ifs" that can be arranged. However it would help if the historical scope was widened enough to include the earlier tin can stuff as well to be sure of veriety.

I don't want to have to deal with civilians in CMx2, farm animals for scenery may be, but battle debris placed on maps providing cover / object effects definately I would like to have them in CMx2 for sure. On the subject of REMF, I absolutely would like to be able to have them depicted in CMx2 as some kind of nameable cobbled together rear or alarm ad hoc formation. Also rear and support posts could be modelled to allow for relavently interesting tactical operations.

While some kind of time estimation would have been good to see, IMO it is both unrealistic and relative because often the troops will move faster when they come under sporadic fire or shelling. (Actually I never order my troops to assualt or even run at all.)

A few good ideas here, especially IMO the concept of having somekind of after battle briefing or an historical outcomes page as Philippe suggested.

Just as I have posted somewhere else in a CMBB thread, now once again I would like to emphasis that I would absolutely love to see the T-34 take its hat off when it meets a Tiger! :cool: [ August 28, 2005, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

IME in CM tank hull MGs fire at enemy troops of their own accord already independent of where the main tank turrett gun is targeting, to be sure I would like to somehow have squad elements do a similar fire spread thing themselves in CMx2. [ August 28, 2005, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

I'm in favour of remote detonations as well, for example Operation Market Garden etc. I agree that demolisions were largely operative / strategic but I have sources of examples for when they occurred for tactical reasons. (eg, the blowing up of a smoke chimney tower so that it fell longways down on top of an enemy occupied factory!) :cool:

I absolutely agree that being able to assign all kinds of ranks and command relationships are good ideas, both for when purchasing and setting up, while also in terms of command relationships during play, one could choose to garantee that spotting HQs and mortars function together as one planned. [ August 26, 2005, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

Don't know about elevations but I think that the degrees of traverse that crewed guns had could be brought in to CMx2, especially for ATGs and treated appropriately in terms of some time and effort having to be taken repositioning guns in situ outside their real traverse arc. This would help with being able to approach and attack the guns properly in the flank or rear while they are delayed by actually having to reposition the whole gun. This would be a bit more realistic especially when you consider the difficulties for turrettless AFV. The effect of this would be to allow for a proper attack to go in against the flank of an enemies force disposition and direction orientation which seems to be an impossible task in CMx1 IME.

So teams in squads all fire at one sigle target then even if they are treated as teams of the squad, or else the teams only operate as such with their own fire targets when the squad is split. BTW though, I've always thought that there ought to be some kind of fire spread as more realistic say against a horde for example or for representing different experenced troops in how they perform employing it.

Shmavis the machine carbine 43 was designated Gewehr 43/1 and changed to Sturmgewehr 44 after Hitler found out what it was and had a fit. He hadn't been in favour of the concept so some creative accounting categorised them as machine pistols, which as a bonus bumped up those production figures. Of course officers from the front gave the game away when they answered him that they wanted more of those good new rifles. So I'm assuming that the figure of 400 000 Gewehr 43 refers to the same Sturmgewehr 44 as represented in CM, notice that they are included in some units from late 43.

Wicky I edit the hell out of my posts but a firm mistake is a firm mistake, now it's too late and in the thread. Ha ha Kingfish, Scots are not English but are both of course British and there's the issue. Bloody Union Jack. (BTW I'm part Scottish of the Munro clan, go the Dons.) [ August 26, 2005, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

I agree with juan, train in QBs while giving yourself a point bonus and use it to take better quality troops and crews, because you can work with them better and quicker as their command delays and recovery rates last for much shorter periods of time.

No worries Mr Reid, sorry I misspelt your name above!

1) Your sort of 'anal' WTF, a capital 'K' please to fully get one giganticly anal... 2) Cool? Only the CM games are cool, in fact probably the coollest thing in the players and especially the posters lives! 3) Plenty of good worthwild advice around to be sure. 4) Here's my bit; I learnt to attack through counter-attacking after getting sick of just sitting tight on the defence, mostly practising in QBs against the AI. I take more casualties by this but I bayonet charge his shot up and shelled infantry, finishing off his assualt forces before they rally sooner rather than just waiting to shoot them again, which is much more exciting while you manage it. The catch phrases to look out for around here are fire and movement, and overwatch for example especially by using on board mortars to deal with enemy ATGs. It also helps to plaster the enemy with Arty and to immidiately follow up with an infantry assault after a covered approach using a smoke screen if you have to. For attacking with armour there are the tactics of bobbing several units up shooting and scooting back in differrent places distracting the enemy enough that he misses or doesn't even get shots off while you should eventaully get him, may be with the one he is completely distracted from. Again I found QBs against the AI were good for this as you can use the different hillinesses to practise the same force types or balances on. Same goes for tree levels and houses. You can make them as big as it lets you while you don't have to treat it as seriously as you might a designed senario and just do it over and over again. (No matter how ever one likes it.) In terms of balanced senarios it depends on a lot of things but I'm interested in what may come up here. Best of luck. [ August 26, 2005, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

Regarding the earlier models of the semi-auto / sturmgewehr types of German weapons, AIUI, they were not produced in great numbers and were not delivered to the Wehrmacht in any amount of numbers. That said, AFAIK, a couple of the early development versions were common enough used by the Fallschirmjagar and given to some skilled snipers. Not sure about the SS, but then again there were quite a few Czech rifles used by a number of German units during the war, although with the same stats they could just be copy-modelled from the Rumanians I suppose, if one must. (I haven't done any of that at all myself.) However, as well research as CM is I was suprised not to find anything extra in any German squads until the Sturmgewehr 44, especially when looking enviously at all those SVTs in Soviet squads. Since I like to employ some Fallschirmjagars when they are availiable, IMO it would be cool if those earlier development versions were included there at least. :cool: [ August 26, 2005, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

Here's one from the other day; I watched and listen to my elite sniper take a single crack at an exposed tank crew and heard "outch my leg" while camera was close to that tank exactly as it shut its hatches. I thought good bloody shot by Jove! The tank never opened its hatches after that, it waited a bit then advanced to park itself 100m infront of the main flag building and just sat there for over 10 minutes while my troops could only hide inside. Eventually I managed to move a schreck team against it from the flank and hit it with the forth rocket! Two crewmen out of five got out of the tank who were then shot by the unhiding troops from insde the building. Fair enough so I won the battle and checked the kill stats for my units. The sniper had none, WTF, and the schreck had the tank and 3 for infantry casualties while sure enough the troop unit had the other 2 for the crew. None of these units fired at anything else, even the sniper finished with 9 rounds left! (This was on the quiet sector.) That tank behaived as if the sniper had hit a member of the crew, staying all buttoned up while nothing was happenning anywhere around it. IME it would have normally made itself unbuttonned otherwise. I don't know if having been shot at from 300m by a sniper made the crew keep themselves all shut tight for over ten minutes but I definately heard the "outch my leg" or possibly even "outch I've been hit in my leg", not sure IIRC but words to that effect, it was the only thing that happenned durng that full minute turn though. Unless it was missinformation the only way I can rationalize this is to assume that the guy who the sniper nailed was too injured to exit the tank or else in some way was also hit by the schreck rocket, purhaps worse and thereby in avoiding a double count resulted in only being included in the schrecks kill tally. Bloody weird hay! :confused: [ August 26, 2005, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

I fully admit that I'm not so much mis-informed (as Jons posted) buy fairly badly uninformed about Ultra, so sorry for posting outside my, ahem, intelligence. I was cluching at straws a bit here. All the same I can't fathom that whoever was responsible not managing to find a way to dissiminate the demise of Wittmann to the troops and public somehow, at least as propaganda if Ultra or whatever had of informed them, since they are the ones who were likely to know about him. Apparently they did such tricky things with material that they got through Ultra AIUI. Brian Read do you mean the next generation of Allied officers and armoured warfare experts / enthusiasts by any chance? Weren't the origionals capable of seeing him in some similar terms to how they thought of Rommell despite the SS runes and could have been positively affected by his killing for their confidence and morale? Possibly also used to confirm to Stalin that they were actually fighting even very successfully against East Front vetrans after holding back with such a long waite and now making it all worthwide, finally as promised? (ie; to have put him into the tally!) [ August 25, 2005, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

Thanx for the e-mail Treeburst155 I'll give it a go for sure. edited after a bit: (DON'T READ : SPOILER WARNING) Played it twice, the first time I fiddled around with giving orders along the way and getting the half-tracks all bunched up and bumping into one another. Only got the HQ half-track off the map at the exit zone after he flamethrew KOed two Shermans, still lost 66:34 points. The second time I plotted the half-track convoy good and proper, nicely cool to watch, espcially that bloody Green half-track making it off in 4.48 time. At least I definately learnt something, though my first try was effected by my previous battle tactics assuming enemy opposition, used to move off quickly and present fire sooner while delayed sometimes, hopefully. A bit gamey purhaps addmittedly though. [ August 25, 2005, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

All that I know is that medics and runners, strecher-bearers, signalers and rangefinders etc, aren't on my CM maps at all. Actually I postulate that there are extra eyes and ears that allow for my overall camera views only, certainly would like to have ammo carries though at times to be sure, however they're not around as far as I can see! [ August 24, 2005, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

JasonC re: why not throw the mines?; somewhat my feeling but in relation to having Infantry especially Engineers and Tank-Hunter teams carry them for Anti-Tank close assault purposes. Ever seen the film "Cross of Iron", or else there are quite a few good pics of soldiers placing mines on tanks or daringly attatching them underneath them! :eek:

You're kidding they didn't know until the following year, didn't Ultra tell them something? BTW I have in a Villers-Bocage book (published in French and English in 2003) by a Henri Marie with plenty of good pics, descriptions and maps has some shots that were take of Michael Wittmann and others of the SS 101st sPz Btln taken on the 2nd of June 1944 by a war correspondent (Scheck) for his article "Six Tiger commanders destroy nearly 3 tank brigades" put in what's descibed as a soldiers newspaper " Wacht am Kanal". Also has a series taken of Villers-Bocage soon after the battle of 13th-14th of June 1944 that provided a colour cover for the "Signal" magazine issue no.16 for some time late 1944. With all that propaganda floting around surely the Allies must have gaied the intelligence and broadcasted it for raising their own troops morale. :confused: Unfortunately Henri Marie gets a bit confused saying that first that it is thought that Wittmann and his Tigers had been attacked east of Cintheaux by 5 Shermans of "A" Squadron 1st Northhamptonshire Yeomanry , 33rd Armoured Brigade but then says that according to eyewitnesses Wittmanns Tiger was hit by rockets from a Typhoon attacking the Panzer from the rear! :confused: I think I know who he is referring to as his eyewitness but he doesn't give any real detail about Wittmanns' demise for this threads purposes. Doesn't have the picture of 007 but plenty for Villers-Bocage with plenty of information for that of course as well. [ August 24, 2005, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Zalgiris 1410 ]

Excellent, excellent stuff fallahs. I also recommend Hungarian Security forces against Partisans for 1943 for good interesting balances.

Intersting Brent I also live near a major airport but only under some of its flight paths when the wind changes and actually near a small plane airfield as well. If a jet is anywhere close enough over head I can't hear the sound from the TV or radio or even from somebody talking in the same room but fortunately only occationally and for just a few seconds. I'm used to it but I'm up from a ravine (creek) and its fairly flat with mostly one story houses around mine of two and before looking up I can hear where the plane and jet sounds are coming from and going to except when they are directly over head but still I think your point about unseen heard sounds for CMx2 could better be dealt with if you consider how hard it is to have any idea on where to locate the shot sound of near distant car exhust backfire in built up areas.

Don't Know if it has been diecussed to death but sounds like a bloody good feature idea to me especially for Infantry Platoons and Companies. I think also that there should be some kind of tactics and moving in formation training and trial senarios included in CMx2 that would be good for newbies and for seasoned CM players to rank their abilities through, may be.