Liam

strategic attack bomber-battleship-destroyer directly upon fort

This is true but the Axis should get warning, they'd have spies and spotters ! a percentage chance at spotting??? possible???

If the West wasn't concerned with casualties, the War probably would've ended in 1944. With a German or Russian Doctrine toward Death and such. Though those Western Societies are what breed such productivity also, even dwarfing the Soviets. The Allies are quite powerful if they're used correctly. I think Tech and some very powerful land units with experience is what makes the Germans so deadly. In SC terms. You really must employ the maximum land power to knock out the Allies. Allies have time but cannot give up their Bread Baskets

Remeber, real war is UNPREDICTABLE! That is why The Allies went into Iraq so cautiously in the First Iraq War. We didn't know if 1 million so called Iraqis were going to defeat us or not. Technology was considered behind but not so much that they couldn't make up for it in experience and fighting with superior numbers. As in The D-Day invasion, it was a bit unheard of to launch an invasion with the intentions of landing Millions of soldiers on a coastline with Heavy Equipment! It took some practice I think in Sicily and in the Pacific for the Allies to buildup confidence. Noone had ever committed such a Massive Operation, and believe me a lot of resources went into it. It would be a lot cheaper if we'd of Taken Spain or Italy and gone in from Transport bases rather than having to capture them on Mainland of Occuppied Europe. Noone was certian how the casaulties would be, and that type of operation had failed before so many were afraid that we'd be kicked back into the Ocean. Remeber there are Firsts in Warfare! Western Allies cared about things like Figures. They cared about the Overall Politics. The British wanted to mantain Empire. The Russians wanted a DMZ between any new Threats that might Emerge after the War, hence the Iron Curtain. Germany didn't have the Numbers your right for a long war... She had a few gambles up her sleeve and she had to cash in fast on those either politically or by crushing her Neighbors. Kind of symbolic of SC, eventually you will dwarf the Germans if you do nothing but IT and Production. The Germans can't counter it. They have to capture everything they, and destroy everyting in the first 2 and half years of war... They did plunder a vast amount of resources in WW2. Just because their #s were low, doesn't mean it was what it appears. Many of those tanks, aircraft you speak of sat on the Rack and were never employed by the Allies.... Being the situation was tedious, They had to deal with an occuppied Continent, it's hard to bring #s to bare. Meanwhile the Reds could, Amphibious warfare was in it's infancy for Modern soldiers. Think hard about the losses in the USSR, facing only Germany, there are not so unevenly matched. Considering the poor state of the Soviet Military in 1941. Also the speed of the German army in the early days of WW2. If not for some VERY hardcore casualties and great tenacity the Germans were on the brink of inheriting all of European Russia. That is about likely 90% of the valuable resources of the USSR! Didn't happen! The gambles grew too daring for Hitler and he was not willing to take it all the way. Like Hannibal who wouldn't take Rome, maybe neither could and knew it, maybe they gambled the wrong strategy and lost, we shall never know the former.

I like what the one guy said on here long time ago, Paratroopers look like they "assclouds" that is pretty dreadful. I think a tiny little spite of a Umbrella over their head would be more graphically pleasing

Blashy, I mentioned The Iraq War in my posting That is modern! It's concievable the American's lost what a few hundreds dead in the whole "offensive campaign?" It's also concievable she could've defeated a Much Larger Force with 50,000 Men or just Air as she did in the 1st Iraq War. Politically getting peace after the Iraqis all starved to death? Military Strategists believed we required at least half of what the Iraqis had in Manpower, we were grossly overestimated them. In terms of Tanks we had little better than half, and more aircraft. The Iraqis were considered Battle Hardened. I am not sure American's lost a single Tank in the largest Armored conflict in history? If they did probably due to a mechanical failure LOL Of those tens of thousands of Allied aircraft how many were in the field? Did the Allies even have that many trained Pilots? The British had a lot of early series tanks as did the Reds, that isn't where they lacked Numerical Edge. The Battle of Britian 2 or 3 to 1 in the air? It is quite possible Fighter Command would have ceased to exist, What the Reds and Americans produced is irrelevent it wasn't being used in any large scale to help the Allies in the combat zone. The Soviets required many months till they started producing WW2 Series Fighters, meanwhile their entire Airforce was destroyed on the ground while the Germans raped the USSR. Pretty much the same with the rest of Europe. Yes, if the Europeans would've employed some effective tactics, they all outnumbered the Germans together, if they'd of fought together. It wasn't till 1942 where numbers counted and quality in the opposition caught up. It's sort of like Chess Blashy, when I put all my Key pieces in position to whoop your rearend, if you haven't made a move, it's very likely I'll kick your arse Now doesn't mean you can't get your units out the door and fight but you better hurry because 1 Knight can trump your King... and no wargames and real life aren't the same but for the last century or so they've been used pretty successfully for an idea of what real life is... I'm sure SC2 type games are played at West Point! In real life you've politics, actual supply and logistics we cannot calculate, chance, etc...? Hmmm, some of that is simulated. Perhaps the Germans were lucky bastages, is that why Hitler upon conquoring France, "Jumped a GooseStep?" Probably because he couldn't believe what the German's couldn't do for 4 years was done in a few weeks against a Numerical = Foe... Why? He Gambled and Won

I demanded a rematch after the humiliating defeat to Terif previously. I took the Axis again... Panzerliga Match Operating West, to take Benelux Early and cleaning off Denmark left Poland a hard fought victory a German Tank and Army taking major damage. France moved forward due to ill deployment of Axis troops on the Western Front and took out the Siegfried line pretty much, leaving only 1 tile in place. Regardless this only motivated German troops to move further forward taking Frontal Position against Paris. Eventually Terif would have to operate back, taking heavy losses, reinforcements arriving late from Poland. Regardless France held out until Mid-Spring 1939. German U-Boat was hunted and taken out...Also retook Brest from British Commandos nearly having lost a German Army there..Those Commandos possessed some amazing AntiAircraft Guns! Second swing of action would be diplomatic, Spain didn't move at all and wasn't part of the Great Reich until 1941. However Iraq and USA both bent to the will of Churchill, two little Girls in the diplomatic bed! One started shipment of Oil the other American Supplies! An Atrocity they would both come to regret joining the war the following year. Norway had been conquested during 1939, with the Northern Flank of the German's threatened, I launched an amphibious invasion of Sweden, taking it in late '40 along with Norway, polishing off hard british resistance. British losing their BEF there and the Axis having a rather poor weather campaign, waiting too long to take the iniative. North Africa also Fell in The East to the Germans and Italians, with Afrika Corp sent personally by Berlin... IN the West however Morocco and Vichy Algeria had been seized by the Allies. With nearly their entire navy, pinning down the Italians and Germans from expanding any further. No Major naval engagements as of yet. All this British Action made it difficult for Axis to build up strong and the delay of Spain means she is a little weak going into Late '41 As USA Joined early, Summer of '41 Germany decided to delay Barbarossa and capture Switzerland, Portugal and Vichy France. All were done in timely fashion, but the USSR joined up a bit early. Despite only moving into Syria Italian and German troops did not have a chance to take Iraq by force as USSR pre-DOWed it... She joined Late Summer of '41 and Axis occuppied 2 frontal cities. Bit after Finland was assualted, the outcome of that Campaign is yet to be resolved, Russians are in the front with bad weather, so resupply doesn't look possible. In the Med, we have taken up defensive positions and attempted not to engage the Royal Navy, the British are moving Eastward ( Go east Young Man ) To retake the entirety of North Africa back to Colonial Rule. Axis meanwhile are regrouping and preparing for a Cold Winter... Iran to Libya still Axis. For the most part, despite some Commando Raids, and Some Royal Airforce Action against the Rock-Spain and the Luftwaffe in Spain. The US and UK navy and airfleets nearly destroyed several Axis units attempting to join Minor Portugal to her Big Iberian Brother in Spain Then pushed back the Italian Navy out of the Boot Region further East, Italians uneasy about engaging a foe so much larger than herself! Axis possess no tech edge and no apparent Numerical superiority, USSR is Silent, a dead frontier.. a second Front could come any day or the Allies will just bleed the Axis all the way to Iran. All major land techs are maxed out pretty much on all sides, air is on the allied side and must Assume MPPs as well. It's a downhill battle for Terif after he survives Winter and Siberians come SOON That will mean Axis have no Army Advantage. I am beginning to believe if Axis don't win 1941 they don't win the game at all... It's all about the Operations and Actions of these years.. So far I do not believe I have lost 1 Unit on Land [ October 25, 2006, 03:55 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Interesting debate, again leaning toward the Great Wars of our passing century. Those that shattered and shook the world forever. Changing us as well forever. Remeber Hannibal and his nation, was watching him on the History Channel, 40 thousand men poured into Italy. First an impossible task, second he defeated everything the Romans sent at him. Technically speaking Rome VS Carthage is like Lithuania VS Russia. However he bested them every time... Despite being outnumbered, outgunned and in the end outwitted as the opponent went to his Supply sources, cut them off, then forced him to fight on ground not of his choosing, used his own weapons against him and utterly destroyed his Country forever had the Carthaginians taken Rome and sued for Peace maybe it would've changed nothing or maybe it would have. The Greeks subjegated Greater Numbers with only a few thousand Men. Superior Quality Not Quantity, as other have pointed out. Why American's defeat 500,000 Iraqis with 100,000 Men. Superior Training, Commanders, not just General Level, Squad Level. That the Germans were the best, is debatable, but that they employed their men in the right places is not. During '40 Blitz into France, French and British went to Belgium, Germans cut South, cut them off and Game Over for France. One among many unbelievable victories. The French and British were evenly gunned, even though they lacked Armoured Warfare, it was all over too quickly to be mere luck. Though it was a big factor too and as in SC2, the Germans used the offense to perfection. How is that Rambo Surrenders with 6 Allied Fighters vs my 3. 2 Allied Bombers vs my 1. 3 Tanks vs my 3... 50 land units vs my 35? Why... Soon to be doubled in special units over mine... Because I destroyed him utterly before he could deploy any of these advantages in the field, moraly and in game.. Like WW2

I agree Germany could've possibly won by being aggressive and so lucky that she would've pushed her Enemies into an early grave before they raised their guard. Even a 150 LBS man can knock out a 250 LBS Heavy Weight if that Heavy Weight sits there and lets 50 Jabs, 150 Uppercuts, and 50 Heavy Rights in? No Without answering really with much else... Having 2 or 3 Times the Strength of the the enemy means nothing. The Loop is a bit of a tough thing, it ties up Axis resources, Africa is a Jugular of the Allies and Axis. Controlling is nothing and everything Also attacking 1 Location for the Axis is not so easy, I do not think that it's all about the offensive and forget all the defense. I think the Axis have to pick the most cost-benificial Attacks they can find and pick off so many enemy that they take Experience and Wealth combo and win. That or get extremely lucky and trap enough of the Allied resources in a spider web and feast on their weak points. Do the Allies have a weak point? I think that the USSR is too decked out in 1942! It's able to retreat all the way into the USSR, build up for the best defense and almost outdo Axis by 1943 completely even in the Air! I have done it anyway, in fact in a game vs JollyGuy I think I went on the offensive in the Summer of 1941 as Axis against his full Barbarossa Invasion force I lost most of rebuilt in '42 and invaded Germany.. Axis require a Very experienced player, Allies also but they are stronger longterm. Axis are deadly if Allies give them a breech position Tough game, it's kewl. BTW: The Axis are represented by Superior Equipment, doctrine and despite a lack of numbers it doesn't matter. It's abstract. The Allies had likely 100 times more ships at sea than the Axis, you cannot really represent that in gameplay. If you gave the Russisans and Americans what they had, the Axis would be invisible on the map. However you should reduce the Russians to Minus 2 IW, USA no Army tech till 1941, and UK shouldn't be able to perform D-Day alone.. They had No Army historically for such a purpose! Bomber Command is there and employed properly can cut 10% of Axis resources per game very Historical.. Abstract

Terif is King at Russian Defense

Bombers are fancy weapons, it's not so easy to knock out supply in Paris or Brest, There are potentially several other locations for which the Axis may operate in reinforcements or merely drive them in with motors... There are places where a bomber is to die for though. For instance if the Axis try to flank you in Syria, 2 or 3 bomb strikes from Egypt might knockout Syria altogether as a Supply depot and cost the Axis several turns. Various other locations this Bomber can be used. On Malta it increases the Malta Effect or at least that is what I heard in the earlier versions... It's excellent for pounding German and French Mines beware of AA, it'll evaporate a Bomber

Glad to hear it HC

I understand your reasoning, a turn has been sent and under the FOW Rules you lose sight entirely of where say Carrier Group B might be? Correct! However the way that the rules of the game run you can blockade much to easily as our units travel linear pathways. You can also ambush much too easily. Sometimes during the same turn you will lose sight of a unit, depending on a kill etc... and always after the turn you will lose sight. Problem is you know exactly in your head where that unit is but the Screen doesn't show it... As it's movement was not possible, after the turn has been completed. That means that you are just running into a brickwall if you try any linear paths through that region and must re-spot it... A little tedious... Though I suppose we must live with some of this. The spotting ranges in SC2 are much more limited and if you're going to create such Random Spotting strikes me as wise if you didn't put 110% spotting on air units or Bomber units as their job was not 110% All I am mentioning is that you are really locked up in a game when you know 7 battleships are in tile 40 2, 40 3, 40, 4, 40, 5, 40 6, etc... and although last turn when they finished their movement phaze your 2 subs spotted all of them and now are destroyed you can't see diddly. So when you send your 3rd sub out it bumps the exact tiles, you're locked down and you know better than to move through those districts. It'd be nice if you had a greyed OUT TILE that showed where a unit ended it's previous turn and a percentage chance that you get an accidental contact, perhaps increased because you're not 110% sure as units in history moved a bit regardless. Instead of always an accidental contact

HC, Hey... Also community, good Sunday Afternoon. I have a very very important suggestion. In SC2, spotting can be a bit tedious. Just the turn previous I could have spotted a Unit that will intercept say one of my Subs. I know exactly which Tile that unit is in however regardless, I have to spot it again with another unit, placing it in danger in order to make a movement that I want to make. This is true with so many other Units in SC2. Fog of War in this game is a little confusing. It's not a tactical game, that's been made abundantly clear. I purpose if a unit is spotted in a particular tile that we leave it as visible. Instead of reverting back to the spotting rules of of our own units to unveil it twice. Doing away with the tedious method of sending several units sometimes per turn to clear FOW all over again. It's retorical to have to do this every single time you want to make a move.

Not worth the effot HC, I do not think with the current game engine that anyone will exploit the Maginot Bug P.S. and by the way, why wouldn't the British keep the Maginot Fortifications up after surrender, they themselves haven't surrendered! They might keep them up for their own sakes

Terif is right Offensives and concentrated firepower bare the most fruit in this game, but at the cost of what? You have to balance your Checkbook before you do it or you may leave a front open to collapse. Every move has a countermove, it only know which to perform, how to perform and most of all after you've the basics when! Now there is some plus to hit run, hide and then hit again. Attacking builds the most Experience, which is a big plus for Air Units, those valuable strength points are better used attacking then being dwindled in air combat. Attacking also gives you the option to choose the battlefield but if you should hide and execute a perfect counterstroke, it could be deemed a trap ? This game is a lot like chess, mobilization and attack... You can stalemate chess, but since the Axis have say 3 Queens and the Allies have seen 15 pawns, not really advisable, plus your GameBoard is a lot bigger

Terif is right about this, an inexperienced Allied Player has a greater chance of victory. Not someone who doesn't understand the game... You have to understand certian logistics and strategies, plus exploits. Otherwise Axis can toast you... You have to rely heavily on the Axis Experience, And Land Power... That is the key to victory... She has to push properly in all the right areas and I'm still learning how to win with Axis Right now except vs Terif, I have not lost 1 Allied Game in Version 1.3 and I do not believe I have lost a Game in Version 1.2 as Allied either So it is true, if you're not a perfect player Allies are much stronger... In this game, Against any other player I've seen so far I would've won the game.. Terif executed strategies I've never heard of or seen done before. Also he managed to stem a little exploit I found. I will not reveal, it may not have been my intention to stay in England despite the expensive Operational costs I nearly killed off his most expensive units.. Only he managed to block the port permanently so I couldn't leave Also I should mention USSR had no tech, but Germany had only achieved LR1 by April 1941!!! Hell, USSR now, done properly can create defenses that are impenetrable if you do not know what you're doing and how to counter them!

If Germany had produced only Panzer 4s, I suppose you could say this, 2 or 3 Xs as many tanks could've been built. Relatively, a P4 is a Sherman, not really a great tank but reliable, strong and in large numbers deadly effective. 4 Shermans beat 1 Tiger, it's a tactical fact... however the Germans were building just a handful of Tigers and many were hard to repair and breaking down at the front. The movement they give them in SC2 is unrealistic, it's unlikely they'd move 1 tile per turn!

1939: Standard, Benelux DOWed, captured easily... France assualted and pushed to it's borders... Denmark Taken with Poland, all easily Now serious Losses for the Axis, aside from Norway Lost... Following: 1940: France Falls fairly easily, no major losses, Norway and Sweden taken by the Axis in relatively Fast Action. Low Tech game all the way through '40 and Axis finally liberate Egypt, with Spain in fold, still no serious losses of any kind anywhere. By the time the Minors begin to join, we prepare for Barbarossa. Bigtime action 1941: Germany assualts Russians in June, beforehand capturing Tunisia, Vichy Algeria, Syria and Portugal. Then following turn Iraq... You'd think we'd have Skyrocketing Morale? Not really, out of supply in the depths of Russia USSR falls fast to the frontline, but in the depths Germans are held up. We're split into Two Fronts, Army Group A In the North, B in the South. South Is held historically and doesn't take Odessa for a few or the Donetz. Army Group A, captures Leningrad a bit late, by this time Russian tech is kicking in and Finland falls, so the benefit is lost. Huge Axis Blunder as the Southern Front begins to collapse for the Russians, we capture Kharkov and the closeness in proximity to Moscow brings Siberians in Summer! That is the end of the Russian offensive, it then becomes a stalemate for the of the game for us... until the fatale next move of the Axis 1942: Germany is faced with some major issues, Benelux was taken by the Allies, and the Allies use their Navy and Air to crash through the Baltic, though not able to take Norway and Sweden they take Denmark and destroy the Kriegsmarine. The Italian Navy seizes this opportunity and operates North to meet the low supply Royal Navy and American Navy. Key here is that the Americans have been in since Mid 1941 and that means that any Sea Lion is a dangerous move. We attack England shortly after the weather Clears. We manage to capture London and destroy a few units and inflict major damage upon the Brits and Americans defending there. It is not enough though as now the Americans and British have caught up in tech and are able to continually hamper supply to London and crush about 5 or 6 German Core Units. The game is pretty much over even with London in Axis hands Russia is on the offensive and all will soon be lost... No way out! Germany blundered in Soviet Russia and in England. Unable to find it's objectives clearly enough, and unable to execute them to perfection against a far superior counter in each case Few other players would've survived this Axis Game. LR1 Fighters, AT3, IW3, Heavy Tank1 in the end... At maximum nearly all corps and 6 HQs, soon pushing out every army out It is hard to beat Terif on his turf, that is tactical manuevering. Even with an economic or an edge in techs.. One has to execute flawless Operations and Germany gambled grossly against Taking England, costing her a cool 2 Million Men killed or captured. Also Terif took very little losses in the East, just an HQ and a few minor units... Didn't push my advantage on him in the right way early on. Good Game, next one I'm taking him

I find it interesting that Stalin was one of Hitler's best Allies during the early years. Odd that like a mad dog he should turn on a nation that made his early conquests possible. It wouldn't have been with the USSR allied with the West as it had been in WW1, at least not so easily and so low in casualties. The Italians were not on the German Boat until the French and British threw them on it. After Austria, The French in particular along with the Brits betrayed Italy. That was her Frontier...she was deployed and ready for war, "then!" Would've been worth it for the West to have Italy-France-UK to help attack Hitler.. The early Armored Doctrines of the British and French I think is lost more to small bankbooks. I think that some men may have been willing to try their new ideas. The Germans were not underfunded. And despite the dismantling of their WW1 Juggernaut, it only left them with new weapons to test in limited fashion and in other nations... Resurrengence was a definite..Meanwhile the ole rusty equipment of the French and British didn't change hastily enough. Regardless of anything the Germans really didn't have the Greatest Armor at the onset of War, just the best deployment of it. They also added good air to ground-divebombing to this alotment though they still didn't understand how to use air. Their High Command was all mixed up and hellbent on tactical air deployment. The British were ahead in this area with Strategic Deployment... Great Bombers! Great Fighters in support of air superiority. The Spitfires and even the outdated Hurricanes were excellent, I believe that the French were using P-40s? I am not dead certian on this though. the Dewitione fighter is I think the P-40 modified is it not? Anyways, The coolest thing about a Scenario that says historically the German Empire was not dismantled is that it gives us a "big what if," the staple idea behind it is that it's no more than extension of WW1 and that's precisely what it should be, with new and improved weapons. Since a WW1 mod of SC2 would be semi-boring... The basic sprites are perfect for 1930s Warfare... The Fighters, tanks, etc... perfect Remeber that in 1930 there was a Great Depression and it was in Europe too, despite the Maginot line, the rebuilding of the German Army, the 5 year plans in USSR.....there was not a great deal of money for war. The People were very depressed and who is to say how things may have ended up with that. Now, WW1 ending the way that it did certianly influenced this, but regardless, you would probably see more cheap units.. less techs, less income during the 1930s, lower supply reflecting lower Morale... you could say from 1929-1933 Low Low Morale, by halving all Resources, cities, ports, etc... Reflecting in the Unit Morale, and Incomes of various nations. Making all operations more difficult and more tedious.. Then you'd need great Generals and Great Victories to prove there may be a light at the end of the tunnel. In my opinion just a twist might be neat to add...

Definitely something I have mentioned previously. Special attributes of Certian Nations: Supply for Russians is higher in lower supply area due to their diehard attitude, their rebuilds should be cheaper for corps and armies due to their large manpower. They should suffer less from losses and morale hits due to their willingness to fight to the death. Germans should get a bonus for their willingness to put it all the line pretty much like the Russians. They suffered the most casualties aside from the Russians in the European Theatre. They also were willing to take much higher losses than the Western Allies and keep fighting, unlike the Western Allies, say for instance France...who surrendered before they should've!!! Likely the same for the UK and what can we say of America if she had lost 5 million? Where would popular support have been then? Morale definitely should be on the side of the Axis and Russians in tough situations... the Americans and British, along with their French Allies would have a feeling of Superiority... They won the first War, they have the strongest Trade Empires in the World. They should have greater resources though their troops should be slightly less Battle Hardened, lesser experience. Harder to gain experience. They should have overall lower morale until Great Victories are achieved over their opponents. Let us remeber, men like Churchill and FDR were unwilling to commit to a 2nd front that was realistic until after the Major losses on the Eastern Front in 1943.. They thought pretty much the Germans were battered bad enough thety wouldn't fight quite as tenaciously as they did...

A HUGE HELP to newbies is turn on the Tiles on the second page of the Main Menu... Right click on your units and see their actual Attack Range, spotting range, etc... Write these figures down... Count them out... It's fairly easy then to know exactly what you're capable of doing Bad weather is a sneaky thing. It's best not to plan attacks in it.. Best to reinforce, Place, upgrade your units and wait for the wather for The Allies... Since they rely heavily on Naval Air and Land Air

It's possible, and the consequences outweigh the gains. The attack values of the German armies are too high... If the Allied player was lucky with dice and was able to execute a flawless manuever it might delay the Fall of France a Month or two... Though in the end the hit by Readiness would be what? Plus the fact Germany would be making 6 MPPs more per turn. After around 50 to 100 turns, that's what 300 to 600 MPPs over the course of a game! Plus what a, 10 percent reduction in USA readiness? Could be that high, if the plunder was 300 or so. I'd say do it! Though it isn't and if it was a defensible position, sure, but really it's not, it's a speedbump at best

John, The Germans would have been much better of being seen as liberators than oppressors. The end result was either they could ethnically cleanse everyone who was opposed to the regime or to the deeper sentiment of their Ideals.. Those people weren't all going to step forward either to be indentified. Many within the system were against it, especially as the war progressed and they saw the reality for what it was. Harder to clean the blood off your hands when you're busy fighting millions of Russians and attempting to prevent a 2nd or 3rd front. The other alternative is a more peaceful Reich, including all people's who were oppressed already in the Soviet Union into a Peaceful yet swift and Military Regime, Peaceloving to it's own subjects That would've given ManPower and popular opinion. Once the Politics were given to the Policitians and taken out of the hands of men like Hitler, perhaps the Germans had a chance. Then again, not to say that the enemies were peacelovers and would've let Hitler off with such ambitions, then it would've required a real Major Victory after France to secure the new Order. I did not understand the foolish ideas the Germans had in WW1, they could've regained their momentum reorganized and launched a 2nd World War and won.

Kuni, I issue a challenge to you Take it if you can by the way the other experience bars that need to be lowered are for Airfleets... 2 or 3 bars maximum