Liam

I remember my Eastern Front game by SSI, really rocked at first. I loved the feel of that massive front, the game was just a little too tactical and not Grand Strategy. Also maybe because the AI never beat me you could usually take Riga the first turn of the game, real real easy objective. In SC2, in the Invasion of the Soviets, Odessa is a little harder but Riga is the easiest city of all, and the 4 frontline Russian cities are essential, if in 6 months you were unable to take these cities it is a sign that you need to read a strategy guide. Terif offers one for Multiplayer, that guide it's sticky'd up at the beginning of the Strategic Command 2 Thread.. but you need to practice on the finer points of SC2 warfare and tactical movement before you evolve into conquoring the USSR. I'm not one to totally point fingers, my first 5 games against the AI I could not take France in SC1! Whoa! I found it immensly addictive, had similar issues with MultiPlayer SC1... France was a Mother of all Conquests, took me a solid 10 games to even learn to conquest France. In the end though I would rarely lose a Corps doing it... Fine tune your game

I have had the chance to actually play Kuniworth, he's a good Player. He actually gave me a match in SC1, which was unusual. There were about 5or6 guys who could do this in the old version. I have to admit despite the fact he's a bit of a Spazz he's unique. I notice on-line on various bulletin boards a very scorning, self righteous attitude about many people. They act as if they were an elite member of a special board room that noone is allowed in without the right of Passage. Like a bloody Fraternity and everyone has holier than now about what is said. I recall writing on a poker forum recently on some poker advice, not giving the best advice probably, probably substandard but the attitude of the people on that forum was dreadful. I came into the forum blazing and acting a little knowitall but I attempted to be modest and only was scorned but what appeared to be young College Brats. Because they've won a few grand Playing Poker they think they're some how the next Chris MoneyMaker. What a Joke! 1 in a Million guys playing poker is that! It made me feel like there was a bad juju all around it. A Dark Presence, when you're amongst young and dumb fools who're not worth your time or effort to learn from or educate either way. Now here on Battlefront, you've got a lot a different minds, you've a conscience in men like Jersey John, you've got Extremely knowledgable layman of the WW2 era perhaps but they possess some neat stuff, real openminded real personable, real lighter souls, it's amazing to feel the warmth and direction here. More Mature, more nurturing and accepting despite some of the worst philosphy, attitude and even down right Evil Creatures that may be here also, but we accept it and that is something. I think we may reincarnated German Generals from former lives along with Soviet Execution Squad Officers hanging in the same Board. Wouldn't be shocked if Terif wasn't Guderian! or Manstein reincarnated ROFL... Then of course you've got American Superman, Audi Murphy in people like Rambo. Kuniworth was definitely that dude from "enemy at the gates," The Commisar.. ROFL "some men are rich with love" P.S. I was probably that poor SOB on the JU Stuka Raids over the English Channel, I'm tragically unlucky

Colditz, I watched the miniseries, they took British POWs there to actually relive what they experienced there, Odd to believe that the british smuggled Pieces of passports in BoardGames from the RedCross! God where those Limeys clever It was hell to get out of Germany, few if any got out and it peed off the High Command so much they executed many of them because the amount of German Resources that were tied up hunting these Perpetrators.. No excuse though, if you expect your own POWs to be treated fairly you must show it turn. I'm certain though we do not hear it, that many young Germans captured faced a untimely fate due to such atrocities.

Tuna you're attacking over a river tile, which means your forces strength are halved from the Southern Approach... You need all of your airpower and you need to encircle Leningrad... After you cut it off from Main Red Supply and it's down to 5 MPP Supply Source it is a matter of time before the city starves, use your Battleships even to hammer the city down further if you have issues after that... Remember you'll need a lot of firepower to kill it off, 4-5 corps, 2 armies, the Finns, 3 or 4 airflottes and 2 HQs and that's that... It will fall just a matter of time, however if the enemy is strong willed and you cannot hold your siege you'll always lose this objective

Jersey John: as with many Empires starting out with brutality and oppression in the end the only way to rule is to treat each one of your Subjects Fairly. You will lose them by killing them all off or by forcing them to adopt your culture. One could say that Charlmagne -SP? was not unlike this? Slaughtering anyone who did not convert to the rightful Faith no way you can kill all of them, so you will join them. I can see if the Axis had survived the war it would have been done politically taking a huge tract of Euro-Russia and then likely making concessions, like returning Much of France... Perhaps it would've been the Rival SuperPower today to the USA... No reason why it's not possible, with their early military successes, just not cashed in on. Like a Vegas Gambler who doesn't quit starting with 5k and having 5 Million... Just bets it all back wanting to Bust Vegas, something you can never do, take the Whole of the World down in one go!

I must say if this is anything like the end product, beautiful, please include some strategic level aspect to the game aligned with MPPs on a grand level... I'm Impressed! Best Mod I've seen

Retributar and Bromley make good points.. To add: I find that people launch Barbarossa too late, Spring of 1941 with the weather breaking is the best time. This way you avoid facing the Siberian Transfer and you are able to make good on the Clear Weather. You'll only face one Harsh Winter and you know when it's comming, it's historical, and it's best to back up stay close to supply if you suspect thet enemy is strong and poised for a counter attack. In SC2 which was not as true in SC1, you have a lot of ability to maneuver and a lot of ability to flank the enemy. German's suffer from poor Supply and that is something the Russians will attempt to use against you, so each time you take a city and get the strength up to 5 you'll find that a key source to strike deeper into Mother Russia. Partisans are also a real pest and you get them in the prippet marshes, South of Leningrad, Near Riga... Garrison your cities with Minors... partisans knock down your city supply level and damage your frontline efforts, real campaign killer. Garrison the regions they rise in Air Power is real important in Russia since a good opponent will entrench, fortify and plant his troops in Mountains, behind rivers, in Forests. Use the Luftwaffe to make bridgeheads. Also use it on Cities. 4 or 5 Air Units will reduce the time you're sieging a great deal. It is very very hard to get all of THE USSR. I've only had one game where a guy played it out, JollyGuy until the last man. Urals fell in 1945. You really don't have to defeat all of the USSR, only destroy all of it's Power, Cut off the Caucasus, Stalingrad, Murmansk... And go and finish of the UK...Though it may seem titanic, remeber every unit you build and every thing you do must be aimed toward a lot of Germans. You need 5 or 6 HQs, 30-35 Units... against a skilled Russian, unless of course you storm the Guy... Long range Fighters are great. As are Infantry Weapons 3, AntiTank 3. Heavy Tanks are also very powerful units especially in certian situations. Make sure to have maxed out your research and despite me mentioning the time to invade, invade when you're ready

John, There was no point to the brutality that the Nazis inflicted upon the Races in their temporary-short lived dominion. Indeed many of these individuals were likely Skilled Laborers put to no good use. It is possible that the Nazis shorted themselves 10 divisions in German Jews, considering they felt themselves German until 1933 they'd of served likely as well as any German Soldier. Likely Hundreds if not Thousands of military vehicles, not including the cost of Garrisons for these Slaves. In the end with the Partisans created and hatred toward the Germans on the whole, the price was probably 5% of German war effort??? Let's just put an estimated figure there, that may have been an edge she needed for ultimate victory... The Romans on the scale were effecting probably a greater portion Souls, the Known World really aside from China or India. Their way of life was not so unlike the many other Civilizations of the Classic Era. Very Brutal and Harsh. Though smart enough to known how far they could take it before the slave whip would turn on them. I think the Roman's use of Slaves was more to profit than to inflict suffering. Regardless of the great amount of suffering caused. The Germans mixed Extreme Ideology with Politics. Real bad thing. The Nazis came to power in an advanced Nation and with a lot of popular support. It's a real shocker for us that it would happen in a Western Society. Cultured, Educated, with such prodigies as Einstein. Even educated, civilized souls are reverted back to base instinct and weep for lower ethical values when facing hardship. It is a true mass conversion to Evil and Darkness from a nation that probably had a great deal of light at the turn of the 20th century. Irony, perhaps we have a Devil in this World After all.

I can't see much death in SC, death of pixels? it's not much for animation, stick figurines on boxes? If kids want death turn on the History Channel! Open their school books, they give figures and some pictures of the Holocaust there. Education? Bahhh, indoctrination We fear what it is, that is in our nature, killing. Since the beginning of time for whatever reason, justified we do it. Never going to change in our lifetimes. I'd rather kids played SC than were pimps in Playstation Games that are million times the sales of SC... Pimps that kill prostitutes, steal their money after raping them with gore As far as keeping those titles out of the hands of kids, I don't see how it's possible. Remeber how easy it was for us to steal our Dad's porn? If kids want it, they'll get it! They're much more clever by 14 than you ever could imagine.

Sorry to say but Jersey John don't you think the Romans were like this in their conquests? Can you imagine the treatment of their own Barbarian Races? Relatively I cannot see a vast difference. The Goths didn't sack Rome because The Romans treated them fairly German's were living in a different century in the 40s, they were not being realistic with the times. That's all... the United States had enslaved what percentage of their population just 80 years earlier? A few madmen were created from the hate and greed of war and ill treatment. They were born in blood & Fire... No one can point fingers, Hatred lasts for many many lifetimes, just look at the Former Yugoslavia, a Miniature scale model of all the hate bottled up in Europe. It's only by some miracle all that is settled.. Europe is what it is, nothing spectacular in this, a bunch of races mixed up with a lot of inbred hatred toward one another. The Germans did indeed reaped what they sowed in WW2, 10 million dead? Relative to Population near what the Russians lost

1941 Barbarossa has begun September The German's are split into two Army Groups, A & B. A aimed toward the Center, ignoring the Northern Regions of Russia, i.e. Leningrad. Smolensk-Moscow Primary Objectives.. Thus far reaching the outskirts of Smolensk 6 months into the Campaign. South front compromised of Army Group B is too smash through the Ukraine and on toward Stalingrad.. So far this objective is not achieved and Ukraine including Kiev is ablaze... 1 Russian Corps, 1 Army and 1 Tank are destroyed attempting to prevent this, with the Siberian Transport and Ural moving toward Full Production... Meanwhile in The South in the Caucasus Mountains there is Commando Raids through Iraq and Iran destroying Russian Oil Fields and Baku, a rich Natural Resource Center for the Soviet Government. We await the head on clash with the Soviet Main Body Force which so far has unsuccessfully managed to entrench, fortify, build up ditches and barbwire to prevent an Axis Onslaught. the German Army is Highly Mobile, every German trooper is now either on a Motor Bike or the back of an Opel Blitz. There are no walking Troops, Mobility 2... Plus Heavy Panzer Mark IVs are increased in speed and agility with new Diesel engines capable of outmaneuvering anything the Russians have. Despite a Harsh First Winter, we've surpassed the Allies in every way shape and form In The West Benelux is liberated but only temporarily... Premature D-Day and it'll be repelled with all the Might and Fury of the Reich USA has entered the war

Barbarossa is the Very King of Campaigns for Germany, especially since the UK isn't much of a challenge to take. Also it really doesn't pay much vs taking the USSR. Personally, if you want to Take the Soviets you need to come strong, with 1 or 2 Major goals in mind, unlike historically where the German's split up their attacks, trying to take Leningrad, Moscow and then Stalingrad also Caucasus... Too many objectives too thin a line to actually achieve anything... You want to take the Russians you must have realistic goals you take one at a time. You must take down say Leningrad, then move onto Moscow, then finish off Stalingrad, one at a time. Not all at once, do not divide your forces. It doesn't matter which City, Mine, Oilfield, region one a time you wish to take but you must plan ahead of time. If you have a Greater Strategic Goal in mind, keep research, unit builds, resource allocation on the whole aimed toward these goals. Usually against an adept player no mixture of any of these will garauntee success but you will have a slight bit better chance at it that's all I can say... I rarely can take the USSR vs say Terif, very very adept Russian, uses the Terrain well, beware of players who use terrain, adapt your strategies, change and give the enemy the unexpected. It's such a difficulty to do this for some players, they tend to play the historical humdrum version of Barby,, this game is about a very different version of strategy and warfare. Goals are not so linear as they were in real life. You must balance what you gain from what you lose, it is possible to nearly forgo attack the USSR at all! YOU CAN ACTUALLY DO THAT, but you better have a Grand strategy in mind for it that is a winning one P.S. I'm not sure without Moscow or Stalingrad now a Major Axis victory is possible need to recheck the Victory Conditions... P.S.S. with the USA such a tiny blimp on the map it's hard to have any strategy aimed toward her and Carriers are much underpowered in SC2 so really the only logical place to Smash up the enemy is East. If IT Tech included all of Germany occupied territory this might be different, but she only receives revenue from her own Territory

Rambo and me had a similar situation, I had a British Corps in North Africa that managed to pillage enough of a living off of no Supply and No Cities in the Desert of Tunisia, Libya, Algeria, Morocco for nearly 2 years before it finally captured an empty Tunis. Hmmmm, I do not think even 10,000 men would've lasted long in those regions. This is my idea since this 0 supply factor is abused by hard to find units that go park and then come back later for recon missions... Each time a Unit leaves it's supply in a place where we know it cannot forage a living we give it say 5 turns at 0 supply, -1 Strength Point... Perhaps this is generous, but it would do away with this gamey aspect to SC2 where units just sit idly hidden for 2 years in a place where there is no water or supplies, think of 200,000 men in a Desert it wouldn't have happened! Mountains in Norway can be worse, the ice would've killed a lot of them. Certianly there are regions in Europe that could support a 0 Supply unit. However perhaps lowering the strength to 2 or 3 after a certain amount of terms would do away with some of the gamey aspects to this part of SC

I recall using this once when I was very tentative with Axis, the Copenhagen port was instrumental in my taking out Sweden without having completely ruined my Invasion, I however forget that Gibraltar Port is adjacent to North African territory and similarly would pass on supply to Allies forces there. What a great feature. I wish there were a few more of these links

Late Summer of '41... German Forces along with their Italian Allies take control of the Suez Canal and liberate Syria, Iraq is next... Egypt will also fall on the following turn. Gibraltar was part of the Greater German Reich last round... Things are going precisely as planned, the only axe to grind is with this Aggressive Dictator in the East, Stalin, we fear the Red Giant must be put in his place and we intend to do this soon!

1941: The Spanish Surrender to Germany. All Axis Minors in the fold. North Africa is in flames, Alexandria captured by Germany. The Entire Kriegsmarine except one BB is sunk. The German Nation shows no Mercy to nations like Spain not seeing our vision, there will be no end to to our conquests even at the loss of our grand surface fleet.

You're lucky mine calls me a Russian :mad:

My ideas for a Plan-Z a realistic one that doesn't drain German resources but utilizes them to the utmost is this... Germany Focuses it's full power on raiding. I prefer the concept of Unlimited U-Boat warfare on the British Isles, with the aid of surface ships for only that purpose, doing away with the Heavy BBs and even using the remaining Cruisers in Support Missions only.. The amount of Research and metal in those ships could have been properly utilized with a raiding Surface Navy, U-boat Force and coordinated Long Range Germany Air over the Atlantic. Boy would the end result of been catastrophic for the British. To me the Bismark and Tirptiz were fear ships, used to threaten the British with the idea of something they were not going to achieve, by 1941 everyone pretty much knew that. To recreate the German Surface Fleet of WW1 is the concept of this thread, one that could rival the British which was never feesible without sacrificing victories on land. I would like to know how much damage could've been dealt to the British in '40 even with a failed Battle of Britian in the air, what the end result of completely strangling 80-90% of her imports. A blockade of an Island is doable... BTW: SC should allow Surface fleets to blockade MPP Convoy Lanes altogether. Say 1 ship per 10 MPPs of shipment and every single remote resource should have a Convoy Lane...Historically simulating that feel and the proper use of Surface Ships and U-Boats How much MPPs do you think the Germans lost in oil-rubber shipments? 50mpps per turn? translated into game terms

Taojah, 1940: French threw in their cards, the British went on the offensive in the Middle East and the Royal Navy duked it out with the Kriegsmarine. End Result is the RN is slightly dented and the Kriegsmarine utterly destroyed. The British are being very aggressive in the med and have managed to do a very decent job of extorting time out of Axis Forces, Romania and Hungary joined the Axis. Vichy is invaded and the next phase to the game is on. The Axis are Gambling a bit, this strategy may or may not Payoff, time will tell

When I heard about the British offense against the Turkish fleet while OE could've remained neutral I was extremely shocked! Really really foolish!!! Some say that the Turks extended the war a year or two by tying up Allies troops in the MidEast in WW1 and Russian ones in The Caucasus.. One really cannot say how things would've been with a better policy toward Diplomacy in that region. As for WW1 Commerce Raiders, Germany's were World Renowned from the Indian Ocean, to the Pacific, everywhere... Legendary Battles that Germany could not win, and extremely effective hit and run tactics by a inferior Navy. One must take their hats off to German Captains of the era. As far as Fuel consumption is concerned, I'm probably right in assuming Fleets do not use the same purified fuel that Planes, Tanks and vehicles use. Probably more dirty junk? I may be off, but this may account for the reason many tend to worry less about supplying fleets fuel? There is another possibility too, a Battleship can take port in Friendly Harbors? In WW1 coal was an issue for German Raiders, they got it where they could! Safe to assume the range on WW2 era ships was not the same. Fuel is not always the issue, but getting it to the front line is!

http://movies.ign.com/articles/036/036062p1.html there is a new movie comming out about the Italians exploit with their frogmen on British Ships in Port Alexandria in '41 Looks as if the movie will be another recreation of WW2 forgotten daring missions. I cannot wait. Confusing time Summer of '43 for the Italians that was pretty much the end game for the Italians.

Yes Yes Yes, Long awaited AAR 1939: Poland is taken down without a Hassle and without a Fight, slow slow transfer to the West, Weather breaks in April/May of 1940 The Slow Transfer is for the Revealing of Wonder Weapons, yet to be revealed. Benelux and France are assaulted Fully, A French Army die. Benelux Surrenders. Italy sneaks through the Alps and Captures 2 unprotected French cities, with the German FSJ operations the Maginot Line is cut off from Paris. French Tanks still hold and dig in, in Paris. German U-Boat is killed of the American Coast trying to find Neutral Waters!

I still see that a Z-plan is not practical without a more friendly Hitler-Stalin Relationship. I would like more research into what Stalin's longterm plans were, good idea when USSR will invade Germany! Navy's are EXPENSIVE, they suck resources out of a nation.. What is the point of taking out England? Starving it far more effective but noone listened to the U-Boat concept I heard Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine had a poor relationship too much division in the Reich, infighting. Wasteful, a Navy is wasteful, every ounce of resources could be converted to more Land Power and Air Power. It is my firm believe that the Royal Navy could be destroyed by land based aircraft as in SC1 enough to get Germany in. Germany wasn't like Japan though, and wasn't oriented toward this type of warfare.

Jersey John: The fact that Germany could ever compete at Sea and on Land is not possible by WW2 standards. Even in WW1 she had bases around the World to use as you stated, they were gone by WW2. So operations were limited. She had a lot of resources tied up on other places. Considering the #2 man in Germany was an Air Marshall I assume that is why more resources went into the Airforce. I do not think a Surface Fleet of Big Bristling Guns to go out and duke it out vs the RN was ever a practical idea. The Old British Guard just had more ships and was more oriented toward Naval Warfare on the all. Even in WW1 when Germany attempted to match the RN it ended badly for Germany, technically she gained nothing from Jutland. Germany's best bet for WW2 is what any SC2 player does in reality. Hit and Run Tactics at best, using the Airforce and Long Range Bombers to Rape England's Resources. Forget fighting the RN, raid it's convoys to death... Fast, small effective ships as you mentioned the Soviets use. I think that More U-Boats and less Surface ships would have been a better investment. Plus more Raiding Vessels that were highly effective in WW1 and WW2 employed by German Forces in the Pacific, Indian Ocean and Atlantic. Not so by WW2, only in the MainBody North and South Atlantic... If she chose to engage the Royal Navy, I think that Mini-Subs, Aircraft and Hit and Run Torpedo missions would have been best. In SC2 Terms, several GLR Cruisers, and several Level2 or 3 Subs... That in Game Terms with a Bomber can spell the death of the Royal Navy and she must researsh ASW tech to protect herself, that and GLR herself. you can perform this, but when you're done, the 2000 MPPs or even 3000 to do it will cost you. That is what would work for Barbarossa, and taking England gives a huge Jump in readiness. So the move has to be decisive and you have to be lucky. It's almost better to avoid the RN altogether and attempt to take Territory where it is not. Killing it in 1940 isn't very practical and without luck near impossible. Russia comes first... This is the way of history and the doctrine of the game unless the UK player has arranged his forces poorly.

Alright Folks, the long awaited End! As predicted the Superior Allied AirFleets, pummelled Germany's Interior from Sweden and Finland, British and American Paratroopers-Amphibious assualt units filled Leningrad all the way to Konisberg, paving the way for The Atom Bomb, which was twice dropped on Warsaw. The Bombs were set to go off in the massive railyard contructed there however killed a few thousand civilians, no worse for were Nuked Poles understood the sacrifice For Victory Bombers Level 4... In Leningrad, which never fell to Russian Forces, 6 or 7 USAAF Crack Air Units set their sights on Moscow along with resistent fighters from Russia and other nations preparing to recapture the Capitol "ALONE" without the Bulk of the Red Forces who were in a Titanic Struggle in the Second Battle of the Volga The Greatest Battle ever fought in History, though the Germans did not use Armor Tactics nor Superior Jet Fighters, something Highly Advanced Russian Scientists and Military Thinkers purposed to Stalin years before, employed to Utter Effectiveness over the plains of Russia. Millions of German Soldiers and tens of thousands of their Awesome Fighters were sent fourth, however most were destroyed, though on both sides losses were heavy, the Germans would not learn their lesson, they kept pouring in a tiny gap and Mother Russia's Armor paved the way, by waxing off Everything Sent at them. Of course in the West 15 or so AirUnits with double that in Land Units available for '45 were being setup for a MAJOR D-Day it was unneccessary, the Error Surrendered after Atomic Weapons were tested North of Berlin, despite having had a Very Decent lead in this Great War [ February 26, 2007, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]