Liam

Axis<liam allies<teriff with a bid of 200 terif kills me

If you want a Russian oriented Front War<as it should be anyways> That's were most the Great Battles happened in Europe. Then you should withdrawl the capabilities of the Allies to prematurely land in France and then throw in about 8 to 12 corps in for the Russians which was fairly accurate. They were cut to shreds...but it is true there isn't enough to cut to shreds. Though the Russian goes with a Fin Gambit and the Ally uses French Delay tactics to win the War rather than decided it in Russia solely. Which would make this into a BOB game instead of Barbarossa Game which it should be. Small chance of taking Britian, quite a decent chance of taking Russia... Give Russia 3 or 4 cities she doesn't have BTW... Help Supply and Defense

I saw a show on Hitler where it always showed his whole desire for the USSR. Their wealth and land... I would think that a big Player like Stalin, would not be trusted by the Fanatical dictator. He hated Bolshevism with a passion, and I doubt that they would've worked together on any longterm basis. All Hitler's plans would lead the long road to moscow eventually... Fulfulling a WW1 accomplishment that really gave the Germans very little but tired troops and some Ukraine Wheat.

Archibald over Liam as Allies with 200 P.S. I didn't get to finish much of it but he was destroying me..LOVElife

That's why the Germans never invaded any other nations besides Norway across a sea or ocean during WW2...The Allies had the Navy/Supplies/Wealth to mount the Normandy invasion...They used existing Italian ships to transport to N.Africa and Crete was an Airdrop... I have heard a famous evacuation of German's in pockets during the end from the Red Army...Though in this game I transport to China and back, and there is no penalty...

Actually what is it that Rommel said about a fixed Gun, a waste, go around it?? Paraphrazing refering to the maginot

Subs don't really compete with Surface ships though. Also, it difficult when the Ally definitely knows where your at when you're blocking shipping! Historically there were main arteries, though check a historical map of subs sunk and you'll be shocked to see them scattered all over the Entire Atlantic and then some! The Oceans were owned by the Allies... The seas were contested for a little while in the Mediterranean when Italian demolishin frogmen badly damaged British Warship in Alexandria. They never knew and never took advantage of their great advance either! I don't however see Allied ships freely traveling into the Baltic, do you??? It would have be suicide for them! Of course you have to be a bit flexible, perhaps a supply alteration for ships travelling sooooo far outside of their sphere of influence. Why don't transports suffer from supply? You couldn't ever make 100 thousand men sit on a boat for 5 months without them going stir crazy!!! They'd mutiny and revolt... There are great Strategic aspects to the Sea battles. Not that I see that should be foremost!!! I have many great ideas about land warefare and Aerial as well.... The sea could use a unit or two added, some size, and some more realistic goals. I have recently used tech 2 subs against an ally, in the process I lost the MPPs it cost to build the subs, but I sank 1 entire US army, I scared the hell out of my oponent. He's like where did these come FROM? It gave me forwarning to his invasion AND it's cheap!!!! With Air and subs, it's hard to contest a Coast without the opposing side with Air. Which is fairly reflective on history... Though modified American and British patrol ships did locate and kill many subs during or nearing the end of the War in conjunction with Surface ships... It was a slaughter house as the designer said the figures were dead to 70%???? Egadss! I guess though it's sort of a bad job, live underwater and die there never to be seen again

To add to my EXTRA most wanted units in SC2... see below......... Artillery/AntiAircraft/AntiTank/Antiship/and even strategic Bombardment... all included in one unit... Which is rough but simple. Call it a Gun Fleet <better than rockets> that are misrepresented in this game for they never hit any ground troops in WW2 and I don't think any would ever been made that could. Scuds even today are terror weapons only cruise missiles, etc.. or close range rockets<in WW2> are effective, of course all now different computer targeting systems. Something that wouldn't be concieved of technologically in the 1940s.... Also they include Cruisers, but not Destroyers. I have mentioned several times that we should have Destroyer Fleets. For Raiding, for extra support of Navies...and for Convoys a cheap naval unit aside from subs that any nation can buy and did. If you're going to create an italian sub, you mine as well get rid of it and assume that it was a support ship to the Italian Navy... If you're going to say that Destoyers were only used as support ships. The Germans used them extensively to resupply u-boats and to raid the N.Atlantic. Plus it would give a bonus to the Baltic fleet and prevent stupid things like amphib landings directly in Germany which was impossible...just cut supply for combat vs heavier vessels on open seas. Galleys of WW2 if you will... I also would like to see bombers, fighters and subs more accurately accounted for. The changes we all know I have mentioned them and others have.... You could include Medium bomber fleet or Fighter/Bomber fleet which would replace fighters being used on ground forces which they could only do limited damage upon. After they dropped their ordnance they had little or no capability to kill in large #s...I doubt many straight up fighter squadrons were ever responsible for the amount of damage they do in this game vs... Though you're cutting corners by assuming they're included... Increase the Size of the Map and Atlantic ocean by the way to include these new weapons... Which would also be more accurate and that way the military #s could be more properly represented. I have many other ideas for unique or real units. All of which have merit and would make gameplay more realistic. If you're going to go a bit more Strategic and bit less tactical that's a different story. But even HQs are superflous... Why have HQs and not some other quality units. Does anyone understand what I mean? Also an HQ would die fast if you attacked it by land...if it was exposed to direct enemy forces EVER... not take a little damage...Got a trillion more ideas someone start a new topic and lets bring up these things. All in one thread. And focus upon the subject.....For it is of ultra importance to improve gameplay and to discus these very very dire aspects of our Game...

In real wars, you need troop transport ships to move troops from one port another. You could have a makeshift port, that has been done... by engineers... Though it takes time... See, ships are small relative to the amount of troops fielded in our conflicts. It took many ships to bring the US Troops to Europe. As far a delivery system, you need an actual amphibious craft, that usually has an armament. Generally carrying a certian amount of troops depending on the type of craft. Even tanks, cannot be landed unless they're amphibiously adapted which few are or were during the War. You have to land the ground forces then proceed with the engineers to unload the tanks which takes time. You can land troops by air and by aircraft that are designed during WW2, makeshift gliders were used. The Germans had quite a nice one that you could fit a tank in it's belly...but only small #s by air that's extremely expensive and dangerous as well. You need two types of craft. An amphibious landing craft, that is specially made that includes Combat Engineers that create makeshift ports and operate equipment to supply the initial troops after they storm the beach head from their amphibious landing craft. Then you actually just need more or less plain ocean liners gutted to transport troops, which you just assume most major power had. Though amphibious craft were not cheap and you needed many, you wouldn't want to bring over too many in one boat cause if the enemy targeted and destroyed that you'd be a dead duck. So men were sparse and so were the craft so they could avoid coastal batters, enemy navies and aircraft..including enemy snipers and riflemen on the beach head. These ships are not well represented in this game, you pay a certian amount of MPPs to transport anywhere anyway anyhow....which is completely inaccurate, the Germans never had the transport capability that this game represents to invade Britian. She would have made these craft but that should cost money... Also the troops who land and establish the beachhead were marines... Most of them weren't regulars. Either Marines or Paratroopers which are also seperate and more expensive to supply and create than regular Armies. So perhaps we may combine the future unit as A Marine Transport Fleet. Getting armies here to there, is regular transport....Paras, though played a huge role in crete and in the Normandy/Market Garden invasion... Are sort of still a minor...You could probably include them, but there are many other things to include as well if you're to do that. Of course nothing is better to cut supply then dropping Paras behind enemy lines and cutting communica and blowing bridges etc... and they took some of the heaviest losses...

Archibald Defeats Liam in Ladder game bid of 300 for Archibald. ERRRRR!

To Bomb or Not to Bomb? That is the Question? Hey, it saved lives, the Japanese would've fought to the bitter end. In the end, regardless of radiation more would have suffered on both sides. What is right? No! It was the beginning of the End of Warfare as we know it. The Power now being in that he has the Bomb, is God. He who doesn't, are lambs. When someone tells me to confront my inner beast. I halt up and stare right in the mirror and realize that every thing bad and good that has ever happened to me, I take full responsability for and that being so...I blame noone, and I don't want be blamed by anone. You're accountable, to a degree. So watch out cause maybe some day when we all ly down to rest, we'll see Angels P.S. Oh! And what made the Japenese Surrender, I don't think it was Manchuria, Outer Mongolia, Korea or or Pacific Empire. It was a slow and steady detioration of an Eastern Tiger...into a wounded beast wanting to take you with it's last dying breath...

That was a lack of planning on behalf of the Japenese. They were blitzing, they should've of stopped! They were successful initially. An invasion of Hawaii, then followed by troop landings in Midway there would have been very little the US Navy could've done. Once they controlled our airfields in the region. We'd of retreated to our coast and waited and built up defenses. The Japanese didn't need the mobility and armor that we needed in the European Fronts. Neither did they need big guns, they had plenty of effective aircraft and big guns attached to ships. The only other Powers in the region that could contest her...France, surrendered. Britian was grossly thinned out do the Nazis and defending it's homeland and the USA the only real player. They were equals on land to me. In a jungle style warfare. They would have never fought in mobile, roads, city engagements. The Japs knew this, their big enemy was the Chinese and they didn't waste any money on things that they didn't need. Russia would've defeated Her bigtime, at any point had she had the #s there to do it. The fanatical Japenese soldier was a perfect fighting unit for the Pacific... They were short, on average 5ft3...They blended in well with the terrain that was similar to what they were fighting in for "many" years. They had decent small arms, likely all German copycats. I'm sure all their steele was US Grade We did beat decimate them however. Better supplied, good leadership and intelligence. Average US GI I'm certian cost a hell of a lot more than theirs to equip for the front. #s vs Quality one of the oldest decisions in equiping your army... I'm certian at least a Million men would've died<combat troops>, Another Berlin to take Japan. So the bombs were a Godsend... Plus if you were putting bricks in your briches at Normandy, you'd just write a letter at attacking homeland Japan.

Stragetic Command is on a certian level. That level needs to be altered. I think that the map is too small to include a full # of troops, equipment, airplanes, etc... You stack up how many armies on th Eastern front and then you're through? Ships usually never left the safety of their own aircover. If they did, it was high tide for them. The Bismark is testimonial to that. By D-Day there were no German Aircraft around to incercept the landings and if there were, Allies had plenty of their own to protect their own. Mostly aircraft prayed upon the weak, i.e. Allied Shipping, transports and Vis Versa. Aircraft were used as Raiders, Recon, escorts for ships and for soldiers on all fronts. I think they may have mixed of the level of tactical strategic in this game... Adding more detail would be a good decision. And you're right Partisans would never take on half corps size. That is redicilious. They'd been lucky to be 1 strength size, and extremely vulnerable to any attack. The AirCraft Carriers I I don't know how many if any ever operated in the N.Sea doing anything. I don't recall much about their role. In the Medditerrean I could see them as valuable to strike Italian ships and shipping...<being hard to find many airfields in N.Africa early in the War>They were very expensive I doubt the Allies would've risked them on foolish suicidal missions like they do in this game. In fact I don't think any Carriers would be available for actual combat in the Atlantic. All would've been sent to the Pacific and anything at home would be purely Big Guns. With many little E-Boats, gunboats, Farmilie Bs as troop support and destroy vessels...Europe Isn't and Island and any naval war would've been decided by land based aircraft not Carriers. I think they should double the strength of Armies and Corps and do away with large Carriers and also place in Recon aircraft<for unit spotting isn't very accurate either>. That cost a certian amount of money. Perhaps we could have a Garrison size Corp that was cheaper, that would be accurate, that had extremely poor combat ability. Force Bombers and U-boats into a stricter Strategic role and less tactical... Then giving both sides equal bombing capabilities. Both could reach each other capitol's, London Berlin in 1940. Or, like battleships duel role soften coastal batteries, knock out supply though be far more effective because in this game I barely ever see strato-bombers used... That would be far more accurate...

I can stand up a first and say friendly fire is common! In fact I've heard it's %10 of battlefield casaulties. Now this will sound a bit comical to serious people. I remeber when I was a flight sim buff, playing vintage World War 2 Aircraft and their was no filter for your beeds from enemy beeds. Initially it was unbelievable!!! "You shot down a friendly!" I'm like no I didn't! Some guys took their records very very seriously! I had a P38 pilot follow me and put me to my doom and I was like, "Hey!" I didn't know any better. Later I got fairly good at the game and never put a beed on a friendly<well enough to kill them> Though it is still a pain in the arse. Don't get in my firing range! I cover my degree points, you get your own kills. I the end I qualified for the most Elite On-line Squadron of the time... Oh! I'm not 16, I wish I was! Though back in those days I would've been printing out these posts for future reference! I have a little bit of diminished brain capacity, I think I got that from thinking I was in a War that was never going on. I would never join the military I've seen how they treated my Father and most of their men. It's atrocious, it's like they're considered to be state owned objects! I wouldn't even go there as far as all the gunk I've heard about them. I was screwed up by the Military and I've never even been in the actual Service Uniform. I've served my Servicemen and Women for 10 years though. The elite group I like, <the 18 yr old boys that jump to get away from Idaho> I'm a bit ahhhh about. Go home! Wait about 5 or 10 more years before you enter in the Big Leagers. Go to ROTC... Vietnam era War, I always asked myself why didn't we go all the way! It was a complete idiotic nightmare and politics and politicians interfering with Generals! While in Korea and WW2 the General was still fairly much in charge of the carnage he committed. You needed the freedom to go into N.Vietnam and take out the base for the VC not attempt to bomb them to death or stalemate them. They were fighting the Frogs 10 years before and knew Jungle warefare they knew that every 1 of us 20 of them may die but in the end it didn't matter. Unless you hit the beehive, the hive kept pouring out more workers. I have known a lot vets, some family too. Noone feels like they got it good that War. Come on and people spit on you and call you BabyKiller! All you did was serve your country! It's like What the Hell, I'm a soldier. I'm probably not old enough to have voted in the arse that sent me here! As for the Japanese being weak on the ground? I don't think so, maybe against a mechanized power like Russia though who else was mechanized in Asia at the time? We know she had the ability to conquor Australia, and she walked over us in a blitz sorta style of her own. Our colonies<so to speak> and she did it with little loss to her own men. Japanese soldiers fought hard, for the most part they were quite cruel too. They won over a huge portion of the Earth in a small period in time. Mostly with their Air Support and in Hawaii....well, you have to look seriously that our oil supplies were never touched. Our old battleships, were now able to be scrapped and the new designs were put in to the works and we got a great reason to fight them to the death. Some figure our leaders knew it was comming and let it for an excuse to go to war. I wouldn't be shocked! Though we lost a lot of men VS Japan on those Islands fighting like Hell. Noone can say the Japapenese couldn't fight, their Zero was far superior to our P-40s. They had a fleet 8 times the size of ours. Made up of a bunch of oversized capitol ships they were afraid to lose. Of course we had 27<aprox> times industrial wealth they did so in the end it wouldn't matter unless they dealt us a more direct blow. Waiting till Germany made Swiss Cheese of Britain and Russia and assualted her East Coast... The Germans intended to build a bomber that would make it all the way to Panama. I don't know what was ever done in the End. Though all ideas were scrapped...even if they'd of made it to the valuable lifeline how long do you think it would've been out for? The Japanese did pose a real threat back on that subject. If they'd of got their crap together in the beginning and done their 3rd and 4th wave and destroyed our carriers, sub pens, oil reserves on Hawaii<or better you capture the> which wouldn've have been a problem. We may have had a couple more years to have to battle them and be at such a great disadvantage. We worried they were going to invade, everyone thought they were on the Island all day after the bombing. Yamamoto was taught in America. Like most of our best enemies from a bit of an underdeveloped nation. He knew his adversary well and he was no walk over. Luck was definitely with our Carrier fleet at Midway<that and some great intel> If you don't believe the japenese were good fighting men, there are still some today fighting in the Islands in around Indonesia don't know the War is over! They had enough tools to fight! They were the ones who we initially gave ships and arms to take out the German colonies in the Pacific in WW1...

JJ: The Military doesn't really allow you take much action against them either. I suppose it is that way for a reason. We do need a certian amount of Martial Law for our Federal Lands/Experiments/etc... However underhanded and cruel it may be to it's people. The Bigger picture being that they can learn a great deal which wouldn't be justified or legal. Kind of like the Germans did with Jews<the many experiments> Though luckily, a GOOD General I would feel would ride on his Horse in front with his men. To take whatever came... Like Patton... Charismatic and fight any injustice to Soldiers who serve and die in the name of Freedom and their country.<lately the World's REAL peacekeepers> The most Free country that I have ever known about besides maybe the Netherlands and a few others European minors. How couldn't you take Saddam out? Who in the Hell made this decision? I would like to personally back slap him like a redheaded step child!!! This man is so much like Stalin, it's not even funny...he admires him too! I didn't know about Pro-Axis Supporters/Sympathizers in India. I heard about them in Iraq<in fact Saddam's uncle and mentor was one>. Of course they did act, wisely! It would have cost them their independance as Britian or Russia would've most certianly taken them in a heartbeat. I also heard that during WW1 or WW2 that Germany incited the African Colonies of France and Britian to be break away. I don't know how they could influence those nations but interesting thought. WW2 was the turning point in the break up of the traditional Colonial Powers and the Birth of the New SuperPowers. Between the two Wars anyways... I know now more than ever if Japan would've been wise enough to take India. EARLY! Cut off the supply to Australia..Perhaps sneak into egypt and S.Africa from such a perfect location and also throw Australia on top of the cake. She could've made herself a Supreme Power. Unstoppable on land. It would've taken the combined Might of the US and USSR<who was busy with Germany> to pull that anchor out. Instead they consolidated their gains after their storm across Indo-China and Pacific Oceanic regions. Not wise... Burma was the stepping stone. the Next mission should've been to devour India and effectively destroy the British Empire. Germany would've helped in Egypt early... The US was remarkable, a lot of people say differently. She was an Economic powerhouse but the Japs had the Navy and the Americans didn't... Midway changed that permanently... Just amazing that so few in such a crisis came out so far ahead...With really more obsolete equipment than their foes... I think that gamble was a huge mistake... Though I suppose leaving the 6th in Stalingrad was every bit big. Perhaps a slow withdrawl from USSR could've been another good year or two on Nazi Germany's life... and hopes of some sort of diplomatic solution. With a coup de tat over Hitler...ever heard of Stiener?

Yeah, some of that stuff is frightening. The base I use to live at near Monterey<beautiful> had to be cleaned up before they let the College go up there? What was wrong with it BEFORE? I am sitting there going, hmmmmm. One of my old bud's last his Dad to Gulf War Syndrome. Don't know if it was what was in our Syringes or in what we exploded. Now our troops may land their butts their again. He'll probably fire em this time. Somebody should've done their job a long time ago. How many more Bushes will have to come & go!

Atom Bombs were very powerful, I doubt that Iraq or N.Korea would have something much more advanced than a crude one. So we figured that out in 1945 and the Germans may have been a few years away from it. Shows you the gap between our nation and theirs, Scientists. I doubt that the War would have carried on if Russia and England were defeated. I still think that they would have been done in the conventional way if they were going to be done at all. Saying by 1942 Hitler stormed the major cities and took the Urals for himself. Then Japan would've chopped of Siberia for herself<what she wanted> and the West would have to negotiate some sort of peace. N.Africa would fall, and quickly India and all of British Possessions overseas, save N.America. The Axis plan was to meet in India...Germany via the Suez and Japan via india...Then cutting off Russia from any supply. I don't see where that makes much sense it's not like she got much supply from the Persian Gulf or the Far East?

With all German those German Genuises, I think someone could've made a crude weapon eventually! At least within a year or two of the United States given she put the effort forth. JJ: I am shocked at Soviet aviation, they always make people's heads turn. They have some fairly awesome aircraft by even today's standards over a decade after the fall of the Soviet Union. At the time of WW2, the A-Bomb would've been quite a terror weapon. In large quantity it would definitely deal hellish damage. On Ships, land forces and industry. Though it would take quite a few devices and you also know how good the Germans were at taking terror bombing. I could also see two thousand ME 262s <upgraded versions> screaming through the skies of France and Germany hammering B-29s on their way to deliver Nukes... Germany scattering her population to the country as the Brits had done. Moving her Industry beyond reach of our bombers. They'd already lost millions against the Soviets and Allies, I think Hitler would've stayed in the fight and the Germans would adapt to Nuclear fall out on that small of a scale in 1945. Though if The USA was building hundreds of such weapons decimating Europe into rubble, in the end he'd likely have a Empire of Ruins... Hitler had plenty of his own tricks. I figure if he had 6 months or a year to plan to hurt America we'd settle for peace. Britian/Russia both having fallen. Nukes would only be used for a decisive victory... OHHH, I know about Goverment Coverups. Gulf War Disease is like what? You got a headache, you feel a little ill. I think that I have never fired a bullet though may have GWS What do you get? Huh, mmmmmmmm. Errrrrrr. crap Every Veteran that has been wounded in combat<especially those who're disabled> Deserve a house<a nice one> and 2k a month...With FULL medical and not that <next year we'll take a look at that> and I never served in the Forces so I would never get any compensation. If I contracted the disease it would have been from my Father's exposure to what Toxin???

Still the delivery system of 1945 was a B-29? 1000 regular outfitted heavy bombers are as deadly. Even in B-17s. 12 500lbs bombs... That's a very conservative bombload for the new improving Heavy Bombers at around the end of WW2. Tokyo was firebombed and it did far more damage than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. Now nukes, have a ball fire type blast that are extremely effective if you know where your target is. Though with good air defense if you didn't have more 10 or 20 devices I don't see nukes ending a War with a nation that was still very much on his feet...Perhaps one that was well on it's way out like Japan was.... Seeing if all those crude A-Bombs found their target without...A. Being shot down, or missed<which we did probably 1/4th the time> and public opinion towards a country that is defeating a nation not by fighting it's Navy/Army/Airforce but rather genociding it's people cause that is the most effective use of nukes... As mentioned above, area bombing<practiced extensively by the British in Germany and by the Americans in Japan> did much much more damage but still never decisively ended the Wars. Japan was losing, the bombs were just America's strong arm pushing her into what she needed to do... She had no hopes of winning, and she was going to cause a huge toll in human lives with Kamikaze Weapons. Russia was storming her China... America had liberated almost everything she had owned in Island possessions. Our subs were sinking them relative to what the U-boats had done to the Brits in '39 '40.. Now if you could mass produce say 500-1000 bombs you could eradicate everything a civilization could build. Which I think America would've accomplished in another Year perhaps. I wonder what German intelligence would've been had she had her strength in '45 and would she have made some sort decisive move anticipating an A-Bomb from the US? I.E. relocating POWs to all industrial/Military production centers. If the War was unfavourable by that point would we eve have had the option? Or maybe she would be only a year away herself fully dedicated to bombbuilding. So in turn could've done damage to us...

It would make Britian Extremely weak if she throws her Capitol ships into harms way right off and cannot afford to fix them. In real history if she would have thrown all her Navy into the battle of France and they were all damaged beyond repair what would have been the outcome of the War? She can build them up to full strength but she has to be a more conservative nation with MPPs... Similarly if Germany never manages to etch off enough Minors she'll never do much with her ships either... She needs quite an army to take on Russia in '41 and balance on research and keep a Navy that may or may not be used... This strategy naturally favours a more prudent Allied and German player. One that doesn't throw away everything 6 months and decide the game that early.

Shore bombarbment works to break up coastal defenders, Though any smart coastal defender knows build your defenses beyond the guns range. Also coastal guns??? Hello anyone, all armies had big guns and coastal guns were built into the side of mountains and cliffs to be used on oncoming enemy ships in places like calais, saipan, etc..... Mines... and not only that planes would utterly massacre ships if not for interdictions. On average an ally kills about 20-100 infantry strength points with me only with ships... That reflects history??????? No way in hokie dokie hell. We need a forced retreat option, and offshore bombardment maybe softens defenders defence not really damaging them. Pushing back defenders 1 hex after so much bombardment. Though retreat has been talked about other places... In the Pacific, big guns were a lot more effective so were navies... Because you're fighting on many Islands and some weren't more than 20 miles across.

Ghengis! Only if I get 10 MILLION DOLLARS!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! "I'll be Mini-me!" JJ: Those huge battleships were even obsolete in comparison with regular bombers/divebombers... Hitler always wanted to make it bigger Maybe he lacked somewhere we don't know about ? The thing being that even Nukes at that time, were not a complete killer. We would have needed quite a few devices and a great delivery system to ensure that we got them good! Also, to make sure German Scientists didn't create one of their own. They were quite adept...If not for a few brave Brit Commandos and Norwegians. They'd of had a great component in there attempt at the Blitz Bomb???

Yeah, I just love history that's why we play this game. We're reliving a part of it...<not fully accurate maybe in 20 years from now you'll open SC14 and you'll go, "OH MY LORD!" I still don't believe Germany's attempt at a surface fleet as being worth the risk. She needed the u-boats in large #s early as Dernitz had asked to completely choke Britian and make her life a living hell. <they would've been more effective than all the other programs combined, a U-boat navy> With Britian having practically no supply, no aircraft, from endless Suicidal German air raids, aerial engagements. Her people on the verge of starvation...Down to rations of like 1 ciggerate a month... She would have had diminished ability to hold the Suez, which would've been overrun earlier. Then her pipeline to the east and west would be covered and all her ships from the Pacific and colonies would have to be called back to do nothing but watch her convoys. Leaving Japan to pick off her colonies and Australia more easily in the battle of the Coral Sea and conquest of Papua New Guniea. Having much more versatility with her aircraft then her navy, and the ability to make alterations faster. She could have adapted some of those long range Recon fighters as torpedo bombers... to level anything that came in the way of a Sea Lion or anything close to her shores as a threat. Russia was in no position to enter a real War in 1941. So time was on his side, yes it was yes it was. Though Hitler was should've a Painter. I thought his work was 6 on a 1-10 scale. He could've painted portraits and sold em for a 2 duestchmarks a pop

Jersey John, I can definitely see Hitler as a Sailor ROFL Although I still feel even if you put the sub blocker in the single hex for the Baltic a determine Ally with penetrate and blow you out of the sea with strength 1 ships... Most of the Loftflottes are busy taking out France & Low countries and don't have time to do much support in the Baltic. You're in a race to get France to fall as fast as possible and that's not possible with your air tied up attacking French ships that will soon be removed and British ships that don't care. They'll still hunt strength 11 subs down. I think you go either way in this situation, but you can't protect the fleet from a determined Ally. Even if you get 2 or 3 capitol ships it's not a significant loss to them. They can easily replace them with the two new ones you've given them.

JJ:: Yeah, pocket battleships? I think another waste of resources for the Germans. There ME262s, their rockets, their rocket planes. Their rocket bombs, the V-1 & 2 programs. They had a name for Hitler's special weapons<should've been waststugutz>. All the German fleet, was kept in port mostly where it stayed or died out in the vulnerable Seas. The U-boats were a must they were the only thing that could survive the British Navy. I know Admiral King was an Anglophoibs, why he didn't listen to Brit intelligence that told him U-boats were heading for our coastlines, where they were at and what they intended to do. What an idiot, does someone have a luger for that guy! I also have heard about a German destroyer operating in the Indian Ocean. Scared the hell out of the Aussies! That and a submarine at the end of the War that was heading towards Japan that supposedly had various designs for jet aircraft and rumored to have platoniom<crude form> that could have been used in some sort of dirty bomb. Given the Jap's history of Suicide Weapons they had designed a submarine that launched a light bomber. Imagine there or four of those off the coast of San Fransico! Luckily we sank her..Though along with the gold and everything else, it's unsubstantiated. RE: These people that don't enjoy to argue history! Well! Get lost then! If you don't like it, then go Kiss the Union Jack for saving your butts. They paid a hell of a lot more in human lives than we did during the War! Russians, nowonder they dislike us, they fought our ground war vs the Germans while we said a 2nd front will be too costly. We cannot afford to lose 500k in men that would be unacceptable! Wussies! Look at the millions of persecuted Jews/Gypsies/Slavs/Homosexuals/Handicapped people,etc... That the Nazis tormented and we knew about it and never bombed their Railways leading into this camps. I don't care about cost of bombers, we should've bombed the camps and put the poor people out of their misery. Of course the Russians were no different and the End, War is Hell. Though right now if it served our purpose as a nation we'd Nuke N.Korea. Whilst 2% of the population is the culprit of their threat. What about the millions of innocent people that are like, NO DON'T PLEASE!!! Like I said there are no rules in love & in war and until Americans fully realize this she'll continue to play cat and & mouse with nations like Iraq/N.Korea/etc......... and they'll get away with spending billions of taxpayer money and slowly dwindling our will. Why not occuppy Iraqi's oilfields, pay the War debt off and feed the people and take of them better than Saddam ever did and from there give em back in 20 years See if I was Dictator of the US we would have a lot less problems. Gotta problem with that France, I can't 3000 ICBMs pointed at Parie