Liam

He better pull a rabbit out of his hat without libya...

Germany was a land based power. She didn't need a navy, unless she was in a war with Britian and France. Navies take a long time to produce. The WW1 navies which were far more evenly matched never really decisively decided the War. So in my opinion as air power had taken over, it would be more cost effective to put the money in Submarines, jets, and more advanced land weapondry as Stalin was Hitler's greatest Enemy. Noone killed as many Germans as Russia did or offered them as many defeats...

I've read about 200 books on WW2 on the Grand Level I have to concur with JerseyJohn only an idiot could lose the War in Europe. Apparently Hitler was an idiot

Yes,l I really think that even if the serious damage of German industry was not as bad as our propoganda made it out to be. We tried strategic bombing it was a huge goal of pre-war military thinkers. So naturally we would have developed very quickly and by WW2. USA would possess a B-17 flying fortress during her entry into the war with a norden bombsight that was at the time cutting edge! The Germans used a radar type device that had intersecting lines from Norway and France to find their bombing locations. During the Battle of Britian had the Germans bombed extensively. They didn't have worthwhile escorts in the BF 109 so that hurt them. The Brits instilled fear in the Luftwaffe bomber pilots and divebomber pilots. Even for the Germans, they had a fairly extensive bomber command by the B.O.B. which is represented in this game. The people of London had suffered greatly! Both in lives and loss of homes. My GrandFather will tell you a story of running in to get his wallet out a bombed building in Norfolk a minor Industrial city. <recently deceased> Bombing industry and killing thousands and even perhaps millions of citizens was thought to be capable of bringing the War home, past the front lines. It was thought it would instill fear in the civilian populace and they would lose their will to fight. It didn't work, apparently. Although many countermeasures, of great expense were used to stop the bombing, rockets... Whole strategies were changed on the battlefield. If the Germans would have had none air defense whatsoever, what would have been the outcome of the many air raids? This needs to be taken a serious look at or perhaps we need to remove those subs in the N.Sea and replace them with a cruiser cause they are unimportant to the outcome of the game though semi-historical just being there. Now bombs are so effective in ending wars, it's rare we even use ground power if we don't have to.

I trust Speer is fairly accurate in his figures! He was a precise good ole chap! A million men tied up??? How many thousands of Aircraft and heavy guns???

France is not where the war should be contested! This game is supposed to have historical accuracy as well! The French were not in any position to defend against a Nazi Blitzkrieg style war. All-out France should fall like a fat lady that sat down too fast If you want to even the odds, after the fall of France give the British Strato-Bombers and level 2 fighters...Also the Russians fell even faster, so why would you give them anything? It's only till Germans were on the eave of capturing Leningrad/Moscow did they really begin to hold/defend.

Oh, Russians did see the use of Submarines that's why after WW2 Stalin built the biggest sub fleet in the world but in this game their slightly more useful than strato bombers. Who builds strategic bombers?

Bites my tongue! Yeah, the Americans did to a small extent use Russian airfields. And the Russian Navy I heard rumours but wouldn't they be sub hunting mostly? Protecting LendLease from American and Great Britian. However Allied Strategic Bombing having no effect? 597 RAF bombers bomb German Rocket Launching Site Peenemünde:The production of the V1 Flying Bomb began in Germany in 1942, but the actual launch was delayed until 1944 because of successful Allied bombing of bomb sites. <much more IMPORTANT> Operation 'Double Strike': First U.S. daylight air raid, with 229 B17's (36 shot down), on Schweinfurt (and Regensburg) in Germany, 320 km; the Americans attempting a daylight raid without fighter escort. Schweinfurt was the location of huge ball-bearing factories that supplied most of the ball-bearings for the entire German military. The second raid on 14 Octobre, 291 B17's now with 60 loses. They had to goto the Swiss/Swedes for Ballbearings which we had to threaten them about. Now you could say that had no effect on the Germans? All the bombing raids combined did hellish damage. Hamburg was scorched and it took them awhile to rebuild bridges/industry/obtain resources, plan air defense<!>, rebuild production capacity. All that and in this game we cannot bomb ploesti or Hamburg or any of these targets because the bombers aren't truely strategic their more tactical bombers in this game. We never wasted much time pounding France, we didn't want to be too unpopular there. That's about the max of a bombing raid in this game. Germans strip out all the fighters that had to be dedicated to protecting their air space and without those if the difference was 10% or 20% on the Eastern front during at the beginning battle of Kursk: Relative strength on the eve of the battle. Germany Russia Soldiers: 900.000 1.337.000 Tanks/mech.guns: 2.700 3.306 Planes: 2.500 2.650 Guns/mortar/rackets: 10.000 20.220 It's those percentages that often win & lose wars. How many more AC could've been brought in from German AirDefense, how many Anti-Aircraft guns could've been converted. As mentioned in this post and Hubert's... ALSO the bigggggest thing, anyone who says terror bombing doesn't work? What about Nagasaki and Hiroshima? That was all they were really, and no worse than the other raids done by thousands of bombs rather than a couple. My own GrandMother who worked in a shoe factory in East Anglia Norwich recounted seeing the eyes of a German pilot as he came down to strafe the workers comming from rubber boot factory. If you're going to have strategic bombing, it was at least effective as subs were vs England! If not more so for I don't think the Russians were shooting down as many German pilots as American and British were early on in the war!

BTW: in 1939 and 1940 Britian was on the verge of starvation from U-boats but they got utterly smooshed them later. Partly due to the fear of invasion they kept the home fleet, home... The Atlantic needs to be bigger!

Okay, well we have to look at the game as it is. A game though I think there are a couple aspects here or there that must be polished up! First of all, you could never station Allied troops in the USSR or aircraft. They wouldn't allow it, the Dolittle raid proved that when confiscated one of bombers it was a test. Secondly you wouldn't be able to repair Russian ships in Allied ports, they'd probably put a ceil on the leaks but that's about it or grant the sailors asylum. The Russian Navy is too powerful, in comparison with the Kriegsmarine that would have pounced it in 2 seconds. Similarly much of what gave Hitler his initial power was the quick overrunning of small countries and the failure of bigger countries to intervene so the percentages for neutrals are perfect. Though if you ever invaded Holland/Belgium, you would pay Dearly! The British would stay to their Allies the French but the Russians would have become frightened to Hell with the Allies and possibly sided with Hitler in at least a Non-Aggression pact. For who knows how long. You also have another huge thing to take into consideration, German subs weren't touched by the Royal Navy. Though in this game the Royal Navy is too powerful and the RAF is too weak. How about creating more subs<more realistic> like say 5 or 6 and making their attack upon surface ships weak as they were historically. Then tie up much of the Allied fleet with escort duty as it was historically. Also Germany never gets bombed in this game, though by the time the US enters the war and in 1942 we were bombing them to hell and so were the British before then. Night time Lancaster and daytime b-17s but in this game you don't get to touch that aspect. Perhaps a income balance can be found in giving the Brits-Americans long distance Strato-bombers... Also another GREAT thing before I go, if you land an army anywhere, amphibious it's not a marine unit. It can't attack right off. You should force that unit to have to wait unless it is an amphibious unit<or pay extra for outfitting it> Thus cutting down Italians washing up ashore in America all the sudden. The Americans have to fight the Japanese, if the Axis player cannot by a certian point destroy the Allies she should get a bonus for forces be redeployed and that would be the perfect ending balance to make the game long. If you want that aspect included. As well as the United Kingdom, though a smaller detachment. Please include all desires and good ideas I'd love to hear them!

Oh, and if you're going to jip the Germans anymore than they are already. Give them tech 2 subs to begin with at least. Partially historical and maybe the brits won't chase em down so fast.

No no no! You're going about it all wrong! Germany becomes overly powerful due to being able to transport anywhere she wants. While during history she was rather limited due to lack of transport capacity and support ships to stop allied air raids and such. Getting into the Suez and the OVERLY powerful Italians assisting their German counterparts it was makes the game unbalanced. If you cut anything more off Germany you'll make her into a little girl. It should be a challenge to access to the Middle East. The game should be made more a challenge operationally is what I am getting rather than shortcuts here and there.

Beware all Mountains and supply shortages. I have had 2 good German armies stuck in the mountains of Iraq a whole game. I think they would have made a difference elsewhere... only take corps into them those there hills

XLiamV AIM name TheCursedsoul@Hotmail.com

I'm interested in hearing some of the others strategies in dealing Russia a very hard early blow? So she cannot build up a line defense shortly after you start offensive. To really knock her down

They Assume that much of the USA's power is being used against the Japaneses. That's why some cities aren't included. If you wanted to put USA is too big a player in this game it would take the balance out. To even up the income more penalties on invading nations... Perhaps refugee Army/Airforce discount for Allied units. The Polish, Free French, and many others served in Allied Armies. Also some Jews in N.Africa. The Whole World was in a way contributing. Save Sweden and Switzerland and parts of S.America... Perhaps a Pool of Income that the Allies can draw from when the Axis hit a certian # that counterbalances their income so that it isn't won by premature Invasion of Spain,Port,Suez,Iraq,Sweden,Norway

Jim, I'm a newbie too! I find all valuable, though I have learned most of it. Becareful! This isn't WW2 AI, these people will pull things out of the hat you have never seen. HQs, cities and terrain are valuable in accessing whether to attack. Knowing whether the next round you will have supply for a unit. I once sent my tank into the direction of Riga with strength 9 after attack. Then the following turn the ruskies filled in the gaps with lots of corps and eventually kill it 3 turns later from lack of supply. You really want to becareful about air! You don't want your HQs or your Air in striking range if the enemy masses his air. I use the 3 attack rule. Use 2 armies 1 tank per city.. Soften it up with 1 airstrike inbetween and then drop your corps onto the city to capture. Also situational awareness. Know where he is going to dedicate his forces! Get there in #s and put up a fight! Often though you may lose units, if he losses so much due to attrition the gain wasn't worth it! I find this especially true with the low income US and UK countries. I once damaged my UK fleet and it took a full 1 or 2 to fix it! You can't afford to do foolish things with them. The German fleet is just a nuisance for them to put up with and any true dedication of resources to putting it under is a waste IMHO. Unless he is blundering! My last game I landed an HQ<4corps,2armies,2tanks, 2 italian corps> had 4 level 3 fighters in striking range of London Manchester. I couldn't put it away, though he had half his navy left had he not covered that 1943 possability I would have taken that island and I had him stalemated in Russia just about. After you have enough Units to do your evil deeds with and cover US/UK Ops. Make sure that you put your money on the right Tech. I believe in Jets, Industrial, and Anti-aircraft.<as all Allies will get jets>

Destroyers!!! Great convoy protectors, raiders, and support ships...

Depending on the programming of those soldiers, I agree. It was a known fact that public SS executions in Russia demoralized the average German soldier. Though you can never turn your eyes away from the heart of man. We are a few million years removed from the Jungle. In Russia, Japan and Germany at those times. Those particular regimes were obviously behind.....as many Muslims are living in some 11th century Paradise. The hate crimes are relative in my opinion. The Russians hated their intellecutals, the Germans the Jews, the Americans the Blacks. As I've heard! Luckily we have not followed in the footsteps of the most horrofic leader of all time. Adolf Hitler, who if had died in 1930 some say would be Germany's greatest politician. Irony?? The World is a strange place, we mustn't ever become complacent and believe that the past couldn't be relived. The Russians and Americans both possessed enough weapons over the last decades to destroy all mankind and that is not sanity! Armies have become obsolete, and in the future survival is first and foremost.

I'm glad you feel strongly about this point! Though still you won't change my mind about history. YES<!>, the Nazis are the top Bad Guys of the 20th century, they had plenty of help! The Japanese did similar atrocities. The Rape of Nanking, the use of Asian women as prostitutes. They still don't recognize their crimes today<as mentioned here before> and they aren't seen like the Nazis were, infamous. The Nazis stand out to us, for they resemble us in a way. Look how our country has treated the black population and minorities if 15% of this countries white's had it's way they would execute every minority. Likewise for the minorities. In Nazi Germany in the 30s, Hitler tapped into that hatred and got the %15 in control of the country. Though I'm sure those are very rough and conservative estimates. In every white person there is a certian distaste. What would it take to elevate it to outright genocide if possible? ROMAN TIMES? Are you kidding me ever heard of Queen Bodaci<sp> she slaughtered hundreds of thousands of her own people and Romans after her daughter was raped by invading Romans. Remeber Spartacus, why did they rebel in such a way? They hated their Roman opressors. Rome, was a population of slaves. Most were treated awful, at certian points improvements were made. They were starving, average lifespan of 20 years. They'd be put into the Games and get eaten by animals, or raped by animals in Theatre and eatened. The average Roman Gent believed that a good night of entertainment was watching to slave gladiators chop either up. The comparison is astonishing. All other races were known as barbarians. During the 1800s when Americans purposely past out blankets with Pox in them to the Native Indians. The 7th cavlary charging through villages filled with hostile women and children.<got what was comming for them> 3 million American Indians were utterly wiped out after the disease...there is no exact figure, that's a guess. We didn't stop until the 20th century and there is still no love between the two peoples. It's hate, murder and Warfare. Right now if North Korea fires a nuke on the South... We'll have the right to kill every person in the North. We'll turn them into dust. That's moraly justifiable? No it's War! The Germans, were dominated by a Nationilistic Fever! A percentage of them resisted! They knew when they were beaten. Tired of dying, is what they were! Though I can't see us being that far from them in ways. It's just a few people and a few decisions that has made the difference. Idealism! Righteousness! Great men! Remeber Sherman, why do you think the Southern United States is still poor.. he taught the break away Confederacy a lesson..

I agree if the Axis get into Egypt, Vichy and Iraq. You're trouble! A smart Axis player can cut off Gibraltar & Spain if the Allies pull a Dutch Gambit and fail. Then you're really bad off. I maxed out production at 512 mpp for Germany in my current game and I'm losing. Takes a good defensive player in Russia a strategist. Proper spending on the right equipment hit the right places. Maybe Normandy isn't the best place to fight. Try taking out Poland, Low Countries/France. Then move into Norway and slowly prepare to cut off British supply in Egypt, the Suez. Hit them from both sides after you destroy their fleet. Develop a good tech for fighters/industrial tech and prepare a force to counter anything the Allies through at you in the North Sea. That's the long goal against US entry... Move up corps through Caucas via Iraq and cut him off if he doesn't protect his oil. What I've found key and been failing to do, is get AHEAD in Russia. Take those units down! Before he has much of a chance to develop tech. Always surround and cut off those units, get 3 striking hexes and beware of disasters! It hurts your HQ experience level which is your major advantage vs the Russians as well as Airpower. If you get level 3 AC by the time you attack Russia, it's probable to kill a Russian fighter in 1 turn. At some point rally your forces, wipe out Moscow and prepare strong Italian Army for any arrivals from the US. Max them out with 2 good German fighters HQ and some armies. Usually I smash up the US if I have the #s

A soldier is a soldiers. There is no rules in love and in war! All Americans are Idealists that believe somehow that peace can be achieved by loving their fellow brothers to death<Ha!>. Well Ghandi, did okay with the pacifist strategy. We did rape the African and Native American cultures. It's nothing new, whenever a bigger stronger more advanced civilization comes along it always beats it's lesser into submission. From the Romans, to the beginning of time!<HEY! Anyone notice the how similar Roman Legions appear in movies with the Eagle staffs, the marching parades to Nazi Germany> Intelligent men knew it was wrong, just like now intelligent men know a lot. Though the masses aren't lead by intellect they're lead by greed and desire. I am playing a game right now, where I have done terribly. Even though I'm in N.Africa 1942 with an Italian HQ, tank, 2 armies, 2 fighters. Maybe 3 armies, and I lost the entire Italian fleet. My goal being the Suez. If it wasn't for 3 British Aircraft Carriers I would destroy Egypt and enter the MiddleEast. We'll see how it pans out. Also I have a huge Italian guard throughout Europe... I doubt Italians could've mobilized such an Army as I have given them. Maybe in 1950. They're stronger and more experienced than France at the onset of War in '40. Just bad luck and planning has kept them out of Greece, Vichy till late, and Iraq. If things had gone my way, by '41 I would own all that but probably under the Iron Cross cause I need the money for them not Italy. No way you can convince me Italian leadership and equipment could accomplish this! Not unless the British up and ran... or were outnumbered 27-1

Subs are meant to be strategic only. Sometimes they have the duel role of covert action and can defend themselves in certian cases. A block on UK ability to hunt subs<increased dive rate, decreased attack as others have said>till they develop higher tech would help and US.

Whoa! Just finishing a tough battle! I am stuck in the mud in Russia and fighting Montgomery & the Americans in Sweden. We took German scientists and gave them pardons. Regardless of what atrocities they'd committed. For it suited our tastes. Americans were the first to experiment with racial sterilizing. The Turks ethnically cleansed many of the Armenians in WW1. The Americans killed from 3-? million Native American Indians. The Spanish triple that #. Whenever we see something different, for instant Islam. Especially if it hits that spot in us and incites our hate. All humanbeings are in the essence capable of hating and committing barbaric acts. It's in the nature of the beast. I don't say that what the Germans did is justified by this I just merely explain it off in the way I know best. I hope that perhaps humanbeings can learn from this experience though with current events... I'm afraid "Those who cannot remeber the past, are condemned to repeat the past!" quoted

you need 3 air fleets, 3 HQs and a mix of strong German armies/corps to fill in the gaps vs Russia. After you conquor France use your cash wisely!