Liam

WormWood: Yes! I watched Das Boot, was an instant love affair! That new one U-something and K-19 don't compare although I really really loved the Red October for its era. Though maybe it was too costly to perform. the Kiel Canal you talk about would be nice a place for the Axis to operate and work their fleet. You try bringing the German Cruisers to Western France for a break-out as originally was intended and you'll get a real real shock that it's just about impossible unless Germany has 6-9 aircraft along the coast to protect the movement. There is real way to rellocate the German Fleet to the Atlantic, I would purpose the idea of a transportation for heavy ships along Axis controlled Coastlines<and possability of a Destroyer class ship to be able to be built besides U-boats in France to compliment N.Sea raiding and anti-shipping.. I know about the mines, they were serious! My GrandFather recently deceased was worked on a MineTrauler

Really interesting! That would make a true battle for the Atlantic. As historically happened, lots of men, iron, fuel, and wealth was put into it. I think a Recon plane is too expensive, and too cumbersome. I think the conversion of the role of a fighter into Recon Fighter or Bomber would be a better suited role and giving that individual unit the ability to patrol multiple sea lanes. Not only that but do what they did historically, attach a few extra drop tanks gut the aircraft and make extra fuel storage and attach special weapons for their new purpose.. Limit the distance of fighter recon and allow both fighter and bomber to run recon on land to though at the risk of being shot down...though they were specially suited to dip in and dip out at high alts, at night in places and times the enemy Air wasn't suspecting them. If you don't want to engage an enemy if you're fast enough little chance he'll hunt you down. Just take for granted the fact all enemey air is hunting recon aircraft and air supremacy allows you a free fly of enemy territory as it did historically, despite the camouflage it helped greatly... I wonder also wonder the way the game is now, the British have a very strong lead in the sea, not saying it's not historical. Though would Germany ever derive anything abroad if she wanted to blockade her? If so maybe making more U-boats for Germany would balance things out, so that the Brits have to hunt as well as blockade... And uhh, was Russian lendlease routes drawn up as an idea? From Britian/US? If historically it wasn't as big a factor perhaps changing the allowance of lendlease to a nation could be done manually. That way if you want to send Russia 100MPPs extra a turn you may. That would create such joy for isolated Russians!

Well, there are many conclusions drawn in this game. For instance many u-boats did pass through Gibraltar underneath the sea then people realize. The Germans do have hard time getting fleets through the baltic to N.Sea, I am not certian how they did historically I know that there was greater protection for them though from Allied raids into the Baltic. In fact it would've been suicide to run down the German fleet as you do in this game and attempt to squish them. You'd be pounded on either side by artillery to smitherines... Leningrad, Suez not working properly, no Panama canal in this game<when it was such a vital US Artery> I think comes to mind as being more important. Is there any consideration to Japan's defeat in this game? If so the US would've come out into the Atlantic with a Hellish Navy/Airforce and Army reserves to put up against the Third Reich. Perhaps a small force could've held the Japanese on their Island as a impotent power...

If you want to do things that way Urko I advice creating a Euro VS N.American team on-line...otherwise I think there is a lack of #s to divide interest unless you're going to run the ladder

I purpose an advancement on the idea. In Germany for instance getting Intel was hard. Though in a minor, depending on where, not so hard. I suggest that there be a minor vulnerability factor and as far as the navy is concerned that's hard but they did break Enigma. Howa bout Recon Intel? That being part of it, that you have a percentage of unveiling certian units via: Recon, local dissidents, spies, Codebreaking, overall the amount of money you invest into Intel<though only Major nations like USA/UK/Britian/USSR are allowed intel abilities>

I remeber for some reason not learning to do transportation in COS. Though I still won every game and in many of my other WW2 sims like it...as N.Africa was always a sideshow anyways and waste of resources...Especially for the immediate goals of the Axis

I only skimmed the ideas here as I'm familiar with the ideas from the previous discussion. Breaking the trench style warfare has sorta been achieved with massive airpower. Though it's not so fun to be ruled by two factors<enough MPPs to buy enough Air and supporting units> Mind what I say every other unit is a supporting unit...and getting good air technology. Then you're set in this game so long as you don't make logistical mistakes. I second this purposal, having played quite a bit and having lost quite a bit of hair to defending units. If not this we need to make Armor truly up to it's Historical standard. Mechanized and mobile made the change along with smart airstrikes<not B-17 Obliterators> More combat ability for Armor and a possible added unit <Mech Infantry> the mainstay of all modern combat in the Infantry role. Meaning fast moving troops on trucks, with tow trucks for guns and equipment and supplies...Making lightning War Possible...

Considering his track record<Failure in Iran, Failure in Kuwait> and the bomb in the mail right now he may not make our April Tourney Bracket He should've read more of Zep's postings

175<gazza allies over liam<axis

I think the real point John was trying to make was the fact that despite all of the Nazi/Fascist sympathizers ultimately they never really took control of anything far as I know besides Argentina? Which is kind of shocking as they would be right after Slav-African-Asian Heritage as far as cleansing was concerned. Obviously the Japanese never knew the hatred the Germans had for their race, although they probably didn't care being that the sphere of influence was far from one another and the Allies were too much of a mutual enemy. Japan and Germany really was a bad idea for an Alliance. I would say that if Russia invaded Sweden and Iraq in WW2 that the UK wouldn't of sat back and watched it. She would've maybe lived with it. You tend to forget that invading nations doesn't go along at all with the Ally philosphy. It doesn't fit correctly unless there was the presence of Axis elements! It's Ahistorical! Even Russia had to watch her Expanionist desires as Japan was put in check by the US. Britian making peace with Germany and Germany expanding into Russia without UK as ally was a very real threat for Stalin. Similarly Stalin making peace with Hitler and then turning his attention to the UK was a real threat for Churchill. As far as a Evil Regime, there are a dime a dozen. This one just conquored almost all of Europe is all! At the time one of the wealthiest locations in the World<top next to the US mainland> So the power enabled them to do their Will and thus they stand out in history above others. Though some would say Napoleon and Stalin as evil, and their heartless Regimes.. Or even that of Imperial Japan

KuniWorth you owe me a game too! You hunt up in the Ladder we have a game you never concluded just began a few turns on! ;)Remeber?

With a bid of 100 Liam<axis> defeats Gandalf<allies> Game: in Opponent English Finder SC For Fun Or Ladder March 13th 2003 12:56AM Game is specifically chose by me to be Ladder Gandalf concedes after beginning of Barbarossa GG for me Gandalf said he had forgot to post and since I haven't recieved credit for my last incident of non-postings I have recorded my E-mail I wrote to Gandalf Subj: Re: SC Ladder game Date: 3/14/2003 3:51:23 AM Eastern Standard Time From: dd@gci.net To: XLiamV@aol.com Sent from the Internet (Details) go ahead and report it if you want i thought i had sorry ----- Original Message ----- From: XLiamV@aol.com To: dd1@gci.net Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 10:50 PM Subject: Re: SC Ladder game Hey Gandalf, umm just a reminder..You never reported our game in the March Ladder listing...Liam

John, they've often said that it's not what you did but whether you won or not! As far as history will remeber you, perhaps Hitler wasn't harsh enough for a Dictator and Stalin was. If you're going to be Evil, don't attempt to be evil, halfway! Then again! Perhaps Russia would've never toppled so fast had she be a bit more reasonable and paranoid Stalin would've never existed the War would've been over a lot earlier instead of a prolonged painful loss for USSR. She lost more than anyone<no leaders, in 1941 certianly doesn't help but historically accurate> Zhukov himself was killed by Stalin no? By a German spy lol

Play that side of the Game though and you need to take into consideration that Stalin was every bit the madman that Hitler was. If you had an IQ of 100 you were going to be sent to a re-education camp if you were lucky! Hitler was bad, but Stalin was even worse, some say that he killed more of his own people than the Germans. Small disputed fact that he killed Lenin the Great himself and his own death was not an accident either... The Russians were definitely the worst and every German they captured was going to look forward to death whether or not he was S.S. or sympathetic... Perhaps you tend to forget the harshness of the times and of the Men and Goverments and many Russians saw the German's as Liberators at first. So I could see that nations that Russia invades like finland and Iraq uprising! As far as Ireland, they have always been uprising and the French well I suppose all you needed to do is hand them a bottle of wine and a loaf of bread and they were happy

Regardless John, whether Italian Leadership were inept or not, the average Italian soldier fought like an Iraqi. Whether it was due to lack of Morale, Nationilism, and equipment<or a combination of those things> they performed as well as many 3rd World Balkan Nations<with even more outdated equipment> I have to assume that when the Italian coupe happened and they hung Mousillini that the Italian Airforce stood out more at that point<the Allied aligned Italians> then they had ever before! They actually had a true enemy at long last, an evil German horde wanting to rape their women and control their Goverment. The Fiat company from all I've seen on the Wings channel has showed promise before the War and during they didn't do half bad in their fighter production. That there were Italian Aces shows that perhaps with-More and better arrangement the Italians would have done good fighting for a "Just Cause." Perhaps why the Country was not so fragmented and punished as Post-War Germany as the Allies felt she was a smaller contributor in all aspects. Even though Germany herself attempted a Leadership coupe and Berlin nearly fell to the Conspirators in '44, <little known event> most people just know of the attempt on Hitler's Life...If it wasn't for another mad dash of luck perhaps the War would've been stopped much much earlier<before much of the damage had been done>

Well, you see British would not lead Americans. It's just not going to happen. However!!! There may be a few variations. I do believe the Germans may lead an italian corps. Though it would give them a particular edge... Perhaps small supply bonus for the HQ-Allied Presence...Would be in order

Another Possible additive to retreats is to force units to stay costing a severe penalty if they do not retreat and become destroyed, i.e. in the 6th Army's case in Stalingrad, where Hitler forced a deathmatch ultimately costing him a hell of a lot of men and morale and a huge gap in his front...Perhaps also giving the attacker an added experience bonus too for accomplish a complete route. Usually when units route they get tired but they love the running and shootings. It's a great morale booster and good target practice

I'll agree to that John if likewise if Allies conquor Minors, they also have uprisings Also a BadBoy Syndrome. If Germany invades Poland-Norway-Sweden-USSR...That's it... USA/UK/USSR invade Portugal-Spain-Low Countries-Iraq-Finland that they earn a bad reputation and thus have more chance of Partisans. So there is a price as there was historically for Germany being a Warmonger! Ireland would've revolted and Germany wouldn't sent them whatever they could muster! They didn't have much love for the Brits

The only problem standing is would that only change current gambits strategies to suite? Also those HQs and airfleets would be better suited to be made into corps though perhaps less historically accurate. I can't really see Greece with much worthwhile air though? Perhaps we could make a -1 tech air representing all previous air before 30s tech? Howa bout DeGaul for Free French Level 8?

As far as the AI in COS, I think it just merely becomes predictable as it does in all games...

I am starting to realize the danger of the Dutch Gambit Terif when I am waiting against US readiness. See how important Sweden is to the Axis and some of the other Minors. Their early entry is just about the time Usually I put the big hit on Russia. Yet I don't know how much Russian Readiness is truely effected by the Dutch?

I am starting to realize the danger of the Dutch Gambit Terif when I am waiting against US readiness. See how important Sweden is to the Axis and some of the other Minors. Their early entry is just about the time Usually I put the big hit on Russia. Yet I don't know how much Russian Readiness is truely effected by the Dutch?

Cro_Panzer you do not recall the game we played that you quit out of and never finished before the last ladder game we played? It's still sitting on the Bulletin Board... I let you take a win on me, I reported it...Though you ummm, never reported that, never finished that, and don't remeber? It's okay, I'm getting use to this this is the 3rd time someone has forgotton to post for me... So I am probably the lowest rated player of them all by now. It's kewl I'll continue to do what other people don't. take the hit

Although I've lost far more than you Terif<Mr. Man> for us beginners giving the Allies the Dutch is suicide! The Germans need Massive air to kill France and they cant wait..They need the plunder in my opinion to get started in the game.

Although I've lost far more than you Terif<Mr. Man> for us beginners giving the Allies the Dutch is suicide! The Germans need Massive air to kill France and they cant wait..They need the plunder in my opinion to get started in the game.