Liam

With a 175<Gorskii Allies> defeats <Axis Liam> Woohoo I swear I never waited so long for my tech to give me anything! GG

Why thankyou John, without Barbarossa and fear of D-Day invasion by Germany in France there may have been enough free supplies and aircraft for Crete to be utilized and for Rommel to make a move breaking through the Suez and onward to the MidEast. Italian Frogmen impress me in this Arena of combat. In fact they're probably the most successful branch of the Italian forces during WW2...Italian frogmen. They had come close to Naval Supremacy in the the Mediterranean never really knew I guess. Both the Valiant and Queen Elizabeth were damaged by these ingenius methods of sabotage. The Brits copied the moves on the Tirpitz. Iceland being the only major base up so far north and out of range to be hit by conventional weapons is a perfection location for a Seabase. I say include Greenland and Iceland in one package and make a united City<base> that allows for the transport and resupply of units outside of Britian. Gives an alternate pathway onto Europe. Pretty blockable right now. No Azores no fun! If you conquor Portugal you want the Azores I wouldn't include the Canaries really or much of the Carribean.... Yeah I love what-ifs... It is re-writing history playing this game you know. Well, that's the only reason to model it after World War II isn't it? We want to relive a part of it each one of us. Think of how we would have done it and if it would've worked. Problem is there is a lot of complexity so we can only go so far before we complicated and bored! I don't mind bored, I like those anal games. HOI reminds me of that bit Have you played it and did you think is was worth much?

BTW: forget to mention if we were to allow coastal bombardment the various Islands mentioned would give a big + to their owners. Planes can sit on Crete but they're very worthless there. I read that Crete ensured German control of the Eastern Mediterrarean. That's why the paradroped 10 thousand men on it... Is this true John and if so does it impact the game as greatly as Malta? or half as much... should it be a strategic consideration in a bunched up deal and I notice Cyprus is English no matter what short of landing on it. An Island like that had communications and occuppying forces!

JJ and SeaWolf:: Those Islands were of important for strategic control. You have a lot more eyes when you stretch out another hex with an Island or two with occuppying troops on them of any type. All those Islands mentioned would have a lighthouse, recon planes, and or ships to keep an eye out for any Enemy trannies<surface ships> in the area. In SC they're merely a strategic sideshow. Even Iceland and Greenland were primarily used to transport.

Well, in SC2 the other thing that would really matter would be the random factor: A General's health, unnatural death, and or assassination. Patton never faced the Desert Fox personally in N.Africa. What do you think would have happened differently in Normandy with the presence of the Field Marshall? Not a bad job in flooding most of the good terrain to land in! Wasn't Rommel also wounded in his car and unable to coordinate things properly any further to help prevent and make landings more costly for the Allied Forces? Hitler was certian Calais would be the landing area and there were sufficient forces to push the Allies back into the Sea<a whole panzer division> just never moved in! Do you think that after the loss of a few hundred thousand men that the Allies would had the iniative to break out and really dedicate freeing France and other Western Occuppied territories? In SC we're taking the place of ultimate dictator. Many of the original Generals defied orders as did the men. Perhaps we should allow for room for surrender when a Corps or Army reaches a certian strength level and furthered by being cut off<feeling no retreat> and maybe have a Manpower bonus<if Unit Limitations are made> for the Russians. As it was impossible for the Germans to kill or capture enough Russian troops to stop reorganization later. The Poles are wimps, we didn't fight for the rest of Europe until them because of the twisted politics of the time. They gave Hitler so much perhaps he himself didn't figure there'd be a war at all or a very longterm one with the West. In fact he wanted peace with the Brits we all know this. Hess was part of this Grand Scheme... Didn't succeed very well though from what History shows. He thought lets fight Communism we'll rally Capitolist support. Then move into Russia and make it's people slaves for the German Oppressors. Whatever the thought it's not so out of sync with history. We made millions of Africans and Native Americans slaves to develop the Americas for Farming and to mantain these lands. To rape these lands dry of gold and silver back to the Old World. Hey it's an old thought just in 20th century we were supposed to be humans, nolonger heathens. The old days were slowly supposed to be comming to an end. Hitler represented the old and twisted German Son. A country facing a bad defeat with a recession looking to put the finger at any race or country who had contributed in any way<or not>. Place blame, get the people rallied, and turn a powerful country into a military machine. German Nationilism is not a new thing, it still exists! [ April 04, 2003, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Some of the game includes what SeaWolf is talking about. When you take Greece you get Crete and it serves no strategic purpose. If Goering would've had enough airplanes during the siege of Stalingrad would the defenders of held out 6 more months? Could that have turned the tide until reinforcements were brought in to free bogged down German troops? What was stopping him a lack of tonage?

We almost did it! General Claus Graf Schenk von Stauffenberg Claus von Stauffenberg was born November 15th, 1907 at Jettingen, Germany. After an uneventful childhood he entered the Army in 1926. Stauffenberg gained distinction in the campaigns against Poland and France. After his transfer to the eastern front however he became disillusioned with the brutal policies toward Slavs and Jews. He was transferred at his own request to North Africa where he was severly wounded losing his right hand, two fingers of the left hand and right eye in April 1943. During his convalescence Stauffenberg had a lot of time to think about Germany's future and he came to the conclusion that Hitler must be eliminated. He assumed the leadership of a ever-widening circle of army officers opposed to Hitler and reserved for himself the task of carrying out the proposed assassination. In July of 1944 the time came to carry through his plan. After two attempts he was able to place a bomb in Hitler's Rastenburg headquarters but it failed to kill the dictator. A coup to take place simultaneously in Berlin failed and Stauffenberg and a few co-conspirators were summarily executed on the night 20 July 1944. They were the lucky ones. Those who were suspected and later arrested suffered many tortures before being put out of their misery. They were the first of some five thousand, many completely innocent, who would die in the bloody aftermath of the conspiracy... Would it make a difference, check this informative website out: http://www.joric.com/Conspiracy/WorldReaction.htm

It was impossible when Hitler was popular to have a coup. Later in the War, there was anti-Hitler sentiment amongst his Generals. Rommel was forced to commit suicide or his family would be executed... He was indicated in a conspiracy. Suprisingly enough I heard a story of Brit Spies having filled Wine bottles with plastic explosives on a plane Hitler was on and they never went off He survived two attempts... He was lucky [ April 04, 2003, 03:21 AM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Yeah, heavy tanks are a waste of good money. I just played a game of SC, where tanks served one purpose. They were used more or less like Infantry<in a corp filled French Front> One tank died by a massive air, afterwards, for a blitz and I used them on two or three minors mainly as a mobile wedge unit. Not as an offensive power unit... I'd stick it somewhere a corps wouldn't do the job. As in Russia, you have a line of 3/4 corps you pound the front with armies, you push the tanks around the edges, and finalize it with a corps behind the lines and you've got an encirclement. Eventually this is impossible when they're is 3-4 layers of corps on one front. Air becomes the A-10 Warthog of SC WW2... <Anti-air, anti-tank needs modification in the game> Historically Armor was a heavy pillbox on wheels with a cannon, machine guns and rolling death for all infantry men. Until Rocket Launchers, PanzerFaust even worse! They had Sappers that had to connect an explosive to the tank and blow it up with a chord attached!!! Suicide mission...

We want the diversity of technology and strategy that makes the game great... As far as SC not being a big title, well it's not marketed like one and this type of game doesn't appeal to 100k crowd, it appeals the 10k crowd. It's always the fact of strategic wargames.... Technology is strategic. When the Germans started the War they didn't have a heavy tank relatively speaking. As the war progressed a lack of long range fighters hurt them in Britian and longe range bombers hurt them in Russia. What would a 1000 B-17s per sorti do against the Urals? Especially cause there was no air defence to speak of there<I know of> It would have been stripped off frontline units! The Brits had leaps in radar, sonar and fighter technology early...that did make a heavy impact on German anti-shipping and strategic bombing. You may say that the Battle of Britian and the War was decided on one thing technology! Coastal Radar! It's a well disputed fact, but don't argue it... Also the U-boat fleet was decimated after advanced Sonar was developed. How many U-boat servicemen are still alive to argue that? The American Airforce was deadly, there was not one point of the Reich that it didn't cover. So when people talk about recon, the Americans had freeflights shortly after the P-47s came into service in Europe as long range escorts. The P-51 is the best fighter of the war, hands up... Better than the ME-262<which isn't evolved enough for Jet technology to be a real threat to a well trained P-51 pilot>... SO what more do you want???

Bombers are useless! Most of the good players, invest in range and jet techs for fighters cash in the bomber and you never see one again in the game. Tanks were the backbone of blitz style warfare. They do lose their value and it's not right. What the Soviet's modeled towards war end was a German Tiger with a 88 as a main turret. You can't imagine how powerful this sort of armor would've been achieved in 1944-45! I don't usually spend on tank tech, and I don't know many that bother. Better to have 2 tanks and a few more corps than the wasted tech money.

I hate the Dutch Gambit, if it isn't performed you're ruined for all that operating cost and if it is you're not in place it can be deadly if those units get favourible die rolls, exp...a bid with lots of Brit Airpower. God it's a headache even for someone who is good! I purpose two things, turn to hit hard take the Dutch or...Save money and save your airpower for removing one French army at a time and in the end you get a full 10 capitol and port, a delayed US entry and Italy<which I don't care for too early> in the war... You have to learn to break the defenses<focus on 1 army a turn> he only has so many he can sacrifice and if he puts all Brit armies on the continent<focus on destroying them too> and you can do away with Britian early.. You'll need Denmark, Poland, possibly Norway to afford this aggressive aftermath OP..

It's Hubert's Brainchild. Blister the man with ideas so that he can pick what he likes best!

Gorskii over Liam

I really think that American's do a good job when their interests are involved<having lived around Army and Airforce bases for 26 years> I know more than most about what people joining up think what their lives are like. They tend to believe it's just a form of income sometimes, that no war or loss is tied up into it. We've had so few Wars since Nam that it kinda seems that way almost and even the Gulf with such low losses...Though realize these people are really concerned about their loved ones, I was and my father served in Desert Storm so I remeber it wasn't a comfortable feeling. We expected a lot more chemical explosions and death then we got... Now even it's proven that the American military is such a high tech fighting machine vs these 1946-like tanks and conventional armies that they can't even really get a shot off unless it's a sucker shot... So carriers are really of no consequence, if we had airfields we could do just as much damage. They're kind of like modern floating HeadQuarters. Also since countries over seas are very unfriendly towards us we need them even still. Despite the increasing range of fighter, bomber aircraft... I like the fact that America is freeing the poor oppressed Iraqis. Their leaders are borderline Stalinists. They're are many other countries that need a hand from their Dictatorships and Tolitarian regimes. We should be at the forefront of freeing the world. Our awesome AirPower and high tech units are a perfect striking force. Here in SC we combine the power of #s vs tech...Even though in history you can be beyond, but not that far beyond...You can't use bow and arrows to defeat file quality rifles. As in this modern time and during WW2... It made a huge difference, when Germany plowed through Poland and although people might think that German Armor was superior it was not! French and British Armor was the equivelant if not better and their fighters were even match for the 109... They merely lacked the #s, and or proper leadership to defend against a German onslaught. They didn't believe they needed to rush into service so many of these modern weapons though they had them. Their modern weapons were better aside from artillery... Carriers weren't as important in European battles from what I've heard, the Brits were godo at modifying recon planes as anti-sub planes and I don't recall many incidences in history of Brit Carrier engaging a home fleet of German fighters<as Carriers have less yeild> it would be very costly for them! I think that America should continue to police the World, it's obvious the Other countries after Yugoslavia are lacking<and hypocrits> Although it will probably not extend past our sphere of interest<money>

Liam defeats Bonanza. Player was not helpful in posting loss<has ignored me nearly a week>, and was playing other games on Opponent Finder while I was waiting for our save to continue...

Terif beats Liam with a 0 bid A very awesome fella to watch in action. I did okay taking France in July and finally pushing him out of Egypt and Syria after Barbarossa he was just awesome in the air. I really got pounced

Wouldn't it be nice if we expanded the roles of a bomber/fighter to give something back not just take away. We've already discussed the removal of readiness by the use of bombing, either by fighters or bombers. Why not add in the original ability to drop in supplies. Though I know in the various theatres it wasn't a precise enough science as it today I think it would be a fundamental additive. Especially if you associated some hexes with easy to supply by air because of the fact that their are large airfields there and really no need for air drops. We could put air supremacy up to counter and the chance that you drop the readiness to the enemy or split the cost on your bomber...long distance tech... say for each long distance bomber point you score you get a 20% readiness bonus for the hex, and 5% for longe range fighters. I would like for it to be recalled in WW2 how many airfleets were used for supply purposes vs attack purposes? JJ you should be able to elaborate on that my friend.

My last game Gorskii I had Bulgaria come in as late as August 41.. That's a first.. The more minors you tend to knock off the faster they move over the dark side

Santa: One point I'd like to touch on again about Naval Warefare and German plunder. They did get a motherload of gold and Germany starts off rather poor... Also the annexations had given Germany more manpower, arms, and room to grow... If you want to make an alteration, I'd say give Germany more base units and take away some of the plunder she recieves. In particular from countries that would be unpopular to attack... The Naval Warefare is a bit too easy. a better coastal defense system would be nice, allowing ground units to volley artillery on ships lurking to close to coastal territory! Hey howa bout a 7% chance with every Bombardment that the Ship recieves 1 hit of damage...increased by anti-aircraft tech<as that effects the quality of precise artillery> Limiting transports and the readiness of some ships in certian seas would help too! For instance, not allowing a direct pounce the Russian Navy rnd1...or allowing the two N.Sea subs to be hunted down so quickly... Oh, and lest I forget this much you are playing a very intense strategy game. You should be allowed by certian laws to enter neutrals. Aside from say Sweden/Switzerland/Spain.. Those 3 countries would've attracted a lot of unpopular sentiment worldwide and remeber that this is the War in Europe not including the rest of the World. The wrong moves in the wrong places had bigger consequences. I'm not the economics major to name them but if you start have to seize up the world's supply of rubber, oil, and steele in order to protect your nation that is not a freebie. Nations like Mexico, India and MiddleEast could all be melting pots for revolts... I don't think that the Allies should recieve 1 dime for Plunder or occuppation<they'd have to be as cruel as the German's were to get any gold from these nations> Stalin should also react more accordingly, with fear towards Allied Aggression... As the US should act towards Stalin...

Edwin I would like to gauge soldiers on their real life abilities. Like you say a Russian unit having a combat ability less than is represented in the game. Likewise the german's had much less troops...Instead of the situation now where they merely make less Russian units to represent their inferior quality. I don't know what to do about the hexes though, and if that didn't change it's a moot point. The Germans, US, British would be of a higher combat rating. As was historical... While the Russians would start off at a disadvantage, and always need #s to overcome a greater adversary. The Russians did however uprgrade their soldiers as time went on... Perhaps the tech system isn't quite correct here. Rather than Inf Tech being size you can organize in a unit. Increase it's readiness/exp. gained per combat/and fighting values as it done already... giving the Italians, French, Russians their original disposition, poor...

I notice on how poorly my Russian Campaign is goes or few other factors sometimes Finland stays neutral? I would actually like to keep Finland neutral as she's a bonus for Russia anyone have suggestions? She's only good really if you're on top of Stalingrad!

I purpose this as an answer to AWOL but not lying... Every Ladder game must be reported in a seperate thread in the Strategic Command Sub.. i.e. Game Report, then Confirmed by the opponent.. An E-mail address for both player's<active E-mail must be reported> After a given amount of time, 2 weeks...A game goes into AWOL report and you must write the player you claim to have gone AWOL<He has 7 days to respond or auto-win can be reported> without an answer<or some sort of excuse on the Ladder Report Thread and explain a reason why you're not finish said game> So far I'm in the hole probably near 20 games. I'm up 2 I currently have 10 unreported games, many with people you all know well! and you know who you are...Hey we all do a little fib but yanno, we need some regulator on this if anyone agrees second my <Report Thread Bill?> BTW: This is no extra work for the Moderator Zap so long as noone attempts to cheat and it's a big plus in keeping people like me and many other's fed up with poor losers.

SC Ladder Problem: Most players are pretty honorable and report their losses. Though I've have about 5 games now with AWOL Ladder player's who don't respond to messages in Opponent Finder and wait a month or two till you forget. Generally they quit after one night or a bad opening...Funny thing is a lot of these player's continue the games they're ahead in.. Go figure huh... I would like some way of addressing this without causing unneccessary hardcore Rules... It's getting a bit pathetic and I know I'm not the only one.

I purpose a special rule when attacking HQs. German HeadQuarters were often on wheels, so there should be special miss role. While Russian's should be hard to distinguish from a regular corps and if you do destroy a HQ then it should have the ability to retreat and regroup at a 3rd strength. If the Brits/US are foolish enough to put a HQ up without AirCover then they get what they deserve! Oh, and they're mobile as well! If you should start a French defense with leadership it should be buried in Concrete