J P Wagner

I think you'll be able to create any size unit you want....you would just work out the numbers of the unit in relationship to the scale you have on the map... if you think about it, calling a unit a brigade, regiment, division, corp, or army really does not matter gameplay wise as long as you are consistent for both sides.. you would already have the necessary military symbols for a North African Campaign because they are part of SC2...if there was a particular unit you wanted represented that is not part of the game, then you might have to sacrifice one of the existing units in order to create it, changing the numbers accordingly..perhaps using paint or some other program, you might be able to create the unit symbol...again, I cull these thoughts from so many editor questions that have been asked, but only those really in the know will be able to provide you with a definitive answer, and it may be too early in the design to do that properly yet... EDIT:...due to my snail paced typing skills, Bill has answered better than I....

People can be so spoiled and selfish that they cannot see past their foolish noses!...Design a damn game yourselves if you think it is so easy!

I think the main reason is because that is how many nations are in SC2...As I mentioned in a previous thread, I think we need to realize that the editor will be based on the SC2 game engine and while we may make many modifications to what already exists, we cannot presume that more will be available...maybe someday, somewhere, the ultimate WarGame Editor will be built for gamers to use, but right now, I think we'll be getting a pretty damn good one from Hubert...

Take this crap over to the General Forum....

Based on comments spread about, I think that most of what you want can be done...While you may not be able to add additional unit types to the pre-existing SC2 force pool, you'll be able to modify any of those that do exist...the trick will be to make the appropriate unit counters... I doubt an "unconnected terrain" will be present as it will probably not be part of the SC2 framework..I asked about creating an unpassable tile and Bill mentioned that you could use the depression tile for that purpose...I'm sure someone will chime in to correct anything that I mentioned...I think all of us need to weigh what is more important, SC2 the game or SC2 the editor...I think as long as it is part of SC2, then it will be available to tweak with the editor, but expecting Hubert to have an editor that goes way beyond the scope and design of SC2, might be asking and expecting too much..

While I must say that there have been some interesting posts in this thread, the poor horse has been beaten into an unrecognizable pile of goo........

Agree Bill...some people's eyes are bigger than their stomachs....

An Agricultural tile would be a good resource to have....perhaps a barn silo as a graphic?

In the Russian Civil war there were some armored divsions in the White Army; the tanks provided by the Allies....the Reds had a few captured tank and armored car divisions as well....the main "armor" unit however was the armored train, which both sides had. My preliminary ideas concerning armor will be to have two classes, light and heavy...since I cannot have rail lines on the map and therefore cannot effectively have armored trains, the heavy armor will represent these units..at the start the Reds will have more armored trains than the Whites, while they in turn will have more light armor... also, the Reds will have the ability to purchase more heavy armor than the Whites, while they on the other hand, will be able to purchase more light armor units..there will be a cap on both units however...these units will be very expensive, which will make it imperative for both sides to declare war on the peasant provinces, to gain the necessary MPP's to maintain their war effort..the Reds in particular may be at war with Poland and The Allied Intervention Forces so they will need all the resources they can lay their hands on...anyway, these are preliminary thoughts.. we'll just have to wait and see how it will play out!

Well Edwin, those WWI movement costs you posted are similiar to what I am planning for the Russian Civil War Campaign but I will need to see if I keep the same scale once I plot out the map....

Not allowing land units to magically cross the sea to invade will be a huge difference in gameplay and I hope the AI will aggressively purchase and use these transports...in SC1 we saw a rather limited AI invasion capability and questionable purchasing decisions, so this combination could make AI invasions in SC2 even more difficult... However, I'm sure Hubert will have some new tricks up his sleeve for SC2...

Good news..the depression terrain would work just fine and keep the map aesthetically pleasing to the eye....

Is it too soon to tell if there will be an unpassable tile choice?... What I am refering to is that some custom maps may not completely cover the grid...there may be corners or other sections of a grid that are not needed for a custom map...I know that you can remove rows of tiles, but can you remove only portions of a row?...if not, then an "unpassable" terrain tile could be used to block out unnecessary tiles....

Desert Dave mentioned in an earlier thread that it will be 5 tiles from Tobruk to the bottom of the map...much...much...better!

Thanks Edwin for the answer...that will make it easier to impliment a realistic OOB...wouldn't be fun to have your opponent send a Panzer Division into Gettysburg now would it...

Regarding research in the Russian Civil War, my initial thought was not really having it as there was not any actual tech research going on...tanks for example were supplied by the Allies for the Whites and many armored units were in fact armored cars...if the MMP's could be set at an absurdly high amount in the investment pool (9999 mmp's for one tech chit) this would in effect prevent players or the AI from using it...the same can be applied to unit builds as there would be some anachronistic units in the Civil War if their MMP price were left at SC2 standards...so while I would have available a low tech fighter unit in the game which would have very limited offensive ability, I would want bomber mmp costs to again be at 9999 to block their purchase...I know I'm assuming (no, make the presuming, so I don't have someone throw that Felix Unger comeback at me) alot about the editor capabilities here, but ... what the hell!

...this is the cunundrum I'm facing as I work on my Russian Civil War Campaign (Yup, though blind and dumb to alot of what the editor has to offer, I'm working on the OOB and map as we speak..er...type)...there are elements in the Russian Civil War that would not apply to SC2, such as Cavalry units, armored trains, rail lines and yes scorched earth would also apply to the Reds and Whites, which would need Edwin's suggestion..I'm trying to figure out work arounds to these and other gameplay decisions while wondering if the editor would have elements in it that are not in the main SC2 game, and simply adjust my thinking once we have the editor available...if indeed there will be editor options available which are not in the SC2 game, then by all means let me remove my foot from my mouth, beg apologies to Edwin, and second the need to bring scorched earth for the Axis on!!!!... [ May 15, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: J P Wagner ]

Edwin, you have come up with some good suggestions but I think at times you are veering away from Hubert's axiom of K.I.S.S. when it comes to gameplay.......

Like you I'm awaiting Empire in Arms and also Guns of August....hopefully GoA will be a nice WWI companion to SC2....

There are obviously certain aspects of each game that are specific to their genre...I have said more than once that the HOI tech and research tree were very well thought out....when I refer to the "same game", I am refering to the realtime, control any country you want, ahistorical minor country supremency that was similiar in EU and HOI...when I played HOI, and watched Romania conquer eastern Europe, I threw up my hands in disgust...now I understand that the latest patches and C.O.R.E have improved HOI greatly, and I have in fact recently downloaded these to give HOI another shot, but I cannot be faulted for leaving the game when I did, because quite frankly, it was awful out of the gate and I moved on to better things...I do give the HOI community credit for their perserverence and how they may have managed to turn the game around...I haven't had time yet, but I will give it another try, hell I paid for the damn thing so I hope I get something out of it!

If he did increase the minor Countries, it would have the added benefit of allowing the same number to be available for the editor...

If it's not too late, I would like to see the availabilty of Cavalry Corps in the unit build pool...I think the inclusion of Cavalry Corps would add to the dynamics of battle, especially on the Russian front, with their increased mobility..they would fall in mpp price range between an army and armor unit...failing this, perhaps Hubert could supply the Cavalry military symbol unit in the editor so they can be incorporated in custom campaigns...

I mentioned on the HOI boards more than once that HOI was nothing more than EUII with a new skin...however the best feature in HOI was the reasearch and tech trees...very detailed with many choices at your disposal....

Great news, especially concerning the scripting options....

PL, I gave HOI a fair shot but by the time it apparantly improved to the point of being playable, I moved on....SC was good enough from the starting gate to keep me entertained while awaiting the next patch while Strategy First- Paradox lost me as a repeat customer...