Bone_Vulture

At 1280x1024? I will not buy that, unless you're a fan of slide shows.

Damn it, I just want the troops returned to the CM:BO level AI. Meaning that the troops stay hidden (STAY HIDDEN)) until the enemy is some 20-30 meters away, and then start shooting (unless they have a cover arc for longer ambush zone).

Perhaps it would be therapeutic to share my worst TCP/IP match in CM:BO... Ever! Losing is not bad, thinking that you'll win and eventually lose made me pop a vein. I was defending against an allied attack; small map village, dense forest cover, slight hills, rain, 800 base points. Americans vs. SS. I had contemplated that the terrain would make infantry and mines the enemy tank's worst enemies, so I purchased just one tank, a Hetzer, and a 75mm inf gun. Besides that, I had a regular rifle company, and a motorized pioneer platoon. All three flags were placed neatly, and the big one was on the middle of a thick forest patch, an ideal ground for infantry. I placed the rifle troops in the vicinity of the flags, and held the pioneer platoon as an evil surprise, hiding way back. I was off to a bad start. As the entry routes for enemy armor were quite limited (and mined), I decided to place the Hetzer to a flankin position behind a house in the front. At the end of the fourth round, a lone infantry unit appeared at edge of the forest, and I had the chance to see the first AT rocket fly at my precious panzer. Bazooka! Of course, I took no risks, and opened fire with a rifle platoon over the field, and let the Hetzer take HE potshots at the Bazooka team. The result? The yankee AT team shrugged off massive barrage of lead like it was gentle summer rain, and scored three hits on the Hetzer, the final one being the lethal strike. Great. But my friend's luck was also mischievous: he had taken the road leading straight to the village with all three of his tanks. Um, not a wise move, anyone? A Sherman exploded from shame after running into a mine field, the following Jackson was immobilized, but a Wolverine managed to slip by, as if by magic. Meanwhile, American infantry was pouring to the center of the pesky village: hiding rifle infantry welcomed them with murderous joy. My 75mm inf gun was placed on the very opposite edge of the map, in relation to the Hetzer. Concealed in rough terrain, it gave American infantry hell as they passed by in the open spots of the mid-map. The obligatory flamethrowers that came with the pioneer platoon also sowed panic on the oncoming yankees. By now, things were definitely looking good to me: two American infantry platoons had already been rendered inoperable, and the other two of my platoons were fresh with near full ammo. I moved one of the platoons to the forest, in order to secure the big flag. And then... The sky ripped open. The village front was clear of American troops, when 240mm goodness began raining on the unlucky, weary defenders. A minute later, the center of the village had been turned to sawdust, the remains of the rifle platoon were running away, and another wave of Allied troops poured in. No biggie, I thought: I still controlled the other two flags with superior infantry presence. It was time to move out the nasty surprise, in order to secure the big flag. Now, my fatal mistake was that i didn't know exactly how many rounds the 240mm howitzer battery held. To cut the rest of the story brief, bitter infantry combat ensued. The other infantry platoon held the forest with minimal casualties, and the pioneers gave fire support from the back, kinda like active reserves. Finally, I moved the pioneers to the far side of the forest, too keep them in cover until needed. *SSSSHHHHHHHHHHREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKK BOOOOOOOM* In a single devastating explosion, the American artillery had blasted a fresh pioneer platoon to oblivion. Four squads, one HQ. No survivors. At this point I could barely keep myself from tearíng my head apart. Not to mention that the inf gun and an MG, positioned some 30 meters away from the blast, both routed. The rifle platoon in the forest held back, and the other platoon on the opposite side was tied in keeping the Americans in place, but I knew it was enough: only two turns left. And like the final joke of destiny, the last 240mm shell ended... Yes, right on top of the rifle platoon's remnants. Final verdict: minor defeat. I swear, I've never thrown so many curses at the "gamey, lame-ass n00b artillery" as I did then. Losing battles like that makes people cranky.

Ok, could someone explain me "Borg spotting" in short? Still makes no sense to me? :confused:

Aren't the normal "smoke puffs" bitmaps, or sprites, as they were once called?

I'm still trying to adjust to the challenger's role with the early-war Axis tin cans... It usually takes 2-on-1 flanking tactics to knock out a KV-1 with early Stug's.

I'd just like to add that crew of any experience will eventually bail out of tank, even if it's shot at with guns that lack potential penetration capability. It's painful to even think of the cacophony that the constant shell ricochets create in the tank's crew compartment.

Although I'd love to see airborne insertions, I find it hard to believe that an airdrop directly on the map would succesful, as realistically the troops have to spend several minutes to drop their 'chutes and form up. I'd rather give airborne units an optional "entry point" on the field, a bit like the commandos in SP:WAW. You'd choose a length of a map's edge, and a referred entry turn. The airborne troops would then enter the map from that zone, either on time or delayed, depending on how far back the enemy's turf the zone is, and the vicinity of hostile units. And the experience/fitness of the paratroopers would obviously matter, too. Special forces and partisans could inserted the same way.

Perhaps I should note that this was CM:BO, where field guns didn't receive a concealment bonus before firing. There is no certain ideal solution for the problem, my opponent simply had mortars around with a lucky LOS. I do not like the idea of narrow and possibly splintered FOF for field guns, it'll easily allow tanks to charge from cover to cover, or evade the gun completely.

In CM:BO, I sowed dread on Sherman Jumbos with my 37mm flaks... It might not penetrate the armor, but it'll cripple and disarm just about any tank with the salvos of 37mm goodness.

The fact that the vehicles aren't able to stay clearly on the road, but don't you also have to stack additional command delay seconds when setting the waypoints? A "follow road" would seriously be an improvement.

Hey, it was an 88! That means quite a hefty investment, and by giving it a narrow FOF I would've risked enemy tanks driving around it unscathed. And the mortar rounds really came out of nowhere, I would've returned fire, given the chance.

Give me download links as soon as the hosting problem is solved.

Aye... Fun, except when you're on the receiving end. I was once defending against an attack, and had a 88mm PAK43 in a perfect vantage point: trees, foxhole, elevated position, full FOF from corner to corner... And then it gets knocked out after getting roughly five mortar rounds. Never took out a single tank. Bleh.

Ok, using guns to demolish the building under those circumstances would not be gamey, but more like counter-gamey.

I only have problems in dense town maps: more rural maps offer enough both LOS and concealment for my own guns (and especially on-map mortars) to take out the enemy guns from a distance. If I was to suggest a modification to the QB rules, a nice feature would be "unit minimum" option. Meaning that you HAVE to spend some of your points for infantry, for instance. The building demolishing tactic is definitely gamey when my opponent only spends points tanks, guns and vehicles in a combined arms ME.

Call me a conservative, but I prefer playing a game as it is. I hate it when people try to talk me down by underlining the "negative impact" the gamey move has on their force. I don't care whether the foxholes work as road ditches or not, use 'em for what they were meant to be used! It's a matter of taste, and I find this serving bitter.

You might've noticed my several rants on troop AI. One thing where CM has succeeded in this ordeal is house evacuation; if the infantry units inside the building aren't pinned or otherwise immobilized, they'll pull out when the building is nearing critical damage. So if the my troops are well managed, they rarely get killed in collapsing houses. That is, unless the enemy uses serious artillery. Also, houses provide concealment and LOS blockage for troops positioned at the far wall in relation to the hostiles. I do not know whether rubble offers this, too. Usually battles like these include several tanks. I've learned the hard way not to trust solely on armor when playing Axis. This is one of the dilemmas in urban battles: in city landscape, infantry troops should be superior compared to tanks - field guns lack LOS to enemy tanks, unless towed (which is usually suicide in cities), and instead usually opt to start blowing up the obstacles. The result is that the infantry rarely sees any battle, when the buildings are placed under the wrecking ball constantly. True; for instance, setting the force mix to "Infantry" will block out the heavier stuff, and force my opponent to rely on less gamier tactics. But the best cure for this stupidity is to find a way to thwart this tactic that he constantly uses: a couple of bitter defeats will likely lead to a radical change in battle plans.

Whoa, are the screenshots of same resolution? The textures on the original look some milky...

I really don't understand that first paragraph. Are you saying that it's easier to shoot enemy infantry located in buildings from rubble? When playing head-to-head, I prefer short battles with small maps, usually with 800-1000 points, due to perfomance/stability issues. In battles of this scale, a field gun can easily have a FOF covering the entire map horizontally. It gets repeative when every match shrivels down to fifteen turns of building blasting, and five turns of infantry "combat" with the remaining survivors. And besides, rubble doesn't offer nearly enough concealment to troops behind it, unlike standing buildings. This eliminates much of the fun sneaking factor offered by towns. And I find the foxhole lining gamey, since it abuses the benefits given by the system. Sure, if you can agree with your friend that the row of foxholes on the road is actually an anti-tank ditch, then fine. I wouldn't take it.

Aye. It reminds of the notorious Starcraft multiplayer matches against the AI forces... People playing as humans would build supply depots to block roads; the AI usually didn't figure how to get past. That's the epitome of gamey. And using foxholes as roadblocks destroys any realism that was left in the feature. I've noticed that town maps also lead to a lot of frustrating gamey tactics, like the already mentioned house torching, and like I've experienced, systematical destruction of buildings with field guns. It's pretty boring to play when all your opponent does is blasting a line of sight through rows of buildings towards the victory flags. "Urban combat"... Yeah right.

This all has a gamey smell on it.

Although I'm not seasoned on the subject, I'd assume that WWII air-to-land rockets were built to fly to the target as straight as possible... It'd be impossible to hit any moving object with a projectile that has a flying arc like that. Or is it a graphical abstraction again?

Sorry Fishu, I have a magical skill of misreading threads. But to get tback to the topic... I do not know how hard is it to modify the troop AI, but would it be possible to make the "follow vehicle" command work in a similar way as "shoot & scoot"? Meaning that if put a waypoint on an enemy vehicle, you could still place another waypoint from the vehicle (to the nearest cover, for instance). What would happen when this command would be executed is that the squad assigned to follow the enemy vehicle only does so as long as it has a reasonable chance of busting it (i.e. enough AT weapons, not fatigued, manpower). When the AI decides that the squad doesn't have anything to assault the vehicle with, it'll move towards the waypoint given, unless the squad is pinned or fleeing.

You guys forgot all about the notorious Finnish AT weapon... "Log".