Nippy

How about purchasing extra LMG teams? One per squad and have them stick together with said squad.

Since I know just about zero about early war armor, I wonder if any armor grogs could point me to a few on line sites that have info on early war British and French tanks. I'd also like some info on early war anti-tank weapons, specificaly the Brits and French. I know the Brits has the BOYS AT rifle in 1940, and I thought the French had their own AT rifle too. But what kind of AT hand held weapons (Ie Grenade bundles/Magnetic Mines) did they have? The old WWII Online fan site called "Tech Pub" used to have lots of this info, but sadly it went the way of the dodo. (Why, Oh why did I sell my copy of SP:WAW!?)

Now, now, the T-Twenty S**t does give the german 7.9mm rifle something to do.

I just want my heavy arty back. I loved using the brit 25 pound guns against German tanks in CM:BO "HAHAAH! Inside this King tiger, nothing can stop me!" *BOOM* -Track damaged. Gun Damaged. Crew shocked.- "Oh fudge..."

If we released CMBB into retail with those new features you mentioned then yes, I could understand people being concerned. I think what people are afraid of is BTS falling into trap of the "Capcom" syndrome. Countless sequals of the same subject re-hashed over and over again with no real inovation in either gameplay: "See, we put the Zombies in dinosaur costumes! Are we not cutting edge!? Come on, we stuck in some extra cut scenes, isn't that worth another $50?" And lets not forget the infamious early release the game and then six months later comeing out with the "Complete" version and chargeing full price for it. Now has BTS done this? No way! CMBB was a huge leap forward with things like the death clock, improved machine guns, more realistic infantry, and a time span that covered the entire war. Now, I have my reservations about CMAK. But if it has even half the new features that CMBB did, I'll by it in a minute. CMBO is a retro move. And just what is wrong with retro? Here's the thing. Take an old copy of the outdated CM:BO and stick it next to any *ahem* 'War game' on the shelf today. Real War? Sudden Strike 2? Warcraft III? Puts it in a new light doesn't it? The average consumer hasn't been exposed to any mass market wargame since Steel Panthers came out. Also, the some of the "average joes" are interested in more serious war games. Operation Flashpoint has sold over 1 million copies world wide and has a stong mission and mod making community 2 years after release. Even the ill fated and ever nerfed WWII Online, which sold itself as a realistic war simulator, has over 10,000 people trying to log onto the server on the first day. Both the demand and market are there. BTS would be fools not to take advantage of it. After all there is still a reason that you can download ROMS of X-Com UFO Defense in all its turn based glory.

1) Why just small maps? This will limit the ability of the AI to outflank any defense the human player would set up. This is just my personal preference. I like plaing on somewhat smaller maps with company size forces. Oversized forces and maps tend to drag battles out too long for my liking. However, I will admit that large maps do have gameplay advantages. I have had some leanings towards larger maps as of late thanks to repeated playing of "The Nippy Challenge" What is that you ask? Well it all started in this thread which talked about the T-34/85 vs. the Tiger. Large maps do have the distinct advantage of showing off the pluses and minuses of Soviet and German Tanks. Large maps really let the German-Uber optics and the T-34s exellent cross country preformence shine. To me, it seems a shame to box it in to specific scenario settings. Historical accuracy can still provide some thrilling play time. Like I said before, they guidelines I gave were not set in stone. They were for the most part designed to overcome the tacticaly inept AI and at the same time give the player more of a fair shake. As for Human vs. Human I think the Panther/76 rules from CM:BO were rather nice. I get Panther, you get Long Barrel Shermans. I get Tigers, you get Fireflys or Pershings. Ect. I just wish someone would convert it to CM:BB

Otherwise, "shoot and scoot" is likely just a waste of AP. I disagree. "Shoot and Scoot" is the perfect cure for C.S.T.S or Cowardly Soviet Tanker Syndrome. Many of a flank attack has been spoiled by the Soviet tank withdrawing too quickly and firing it's shot while on the move, which makes accurate just about 0%. The Shoot and Scoot command makes the tank stand still to take it's shot. Which can make all the difference between a perfect ambush and a spoiled one.

It's a training battle of sorts. The idea came about after I read the "KT's in Quick battles" on the tips and tricks board. In the battle you, for the most part, have to use Non-Tank units to take out German heavy tanks. Plus you have the added challenge of having to strip away the supporting infantry first. If anyone is interested, just send me an E-mail.

Might as well throw in my two cents: - Dynaic lighting. Two words on this. Muzzle Flash. Night combat is just bleh without the abilaty to target light sources. - Co-Op. I second this. I would love to be able to play 2 vs 2 or 4 vs an AI Battle. - Operations. Missions makers need more control over what happens. Weather, placment of AI troops, and even battle type. I'd love to see something like: Battle 1 - 15 turns Soviet Probe Battle 2 - 30 turns Soviet Assault Battle 3 - 20 turns German Counter-Attack - Ammo loadout. Why can't I tweek my tanks ammo loads? If I know I'm going up against lots of infantry, why would I wants lots of AP rounds. I remember that "Across the Rhine" (spit!) had three setting for tank ammo loadout: Anit-Inf Anti-Armor and Mixed. - Tank damage. Lets get grogish. How about more detailed damage to a tank. I always hate how "Gun damage" knocks out the Main Gun, hull gun, and Coax. And don't forget non vital hits that could damage optics or radios. Speaking of Co-Op games. What about a Squad level CM game where you control a squad of riflemen. The only WEGO style game I know to do it at the squad level is "UFO-Aftermath" but it's a Sci-Fi game (nothing wrong with that ) and has no Multiplayer support. (Someone help me here, didn't Steel beasts have Co-Op mode?)

I'm not grog enough to have the numbers, but it seems likely that the Germans wouldn't be sending their best tanks--all pretty scarce--to the mountainous, secondary battlefront of Italy. After the Battle of Kursk, the Germans added a hull Machinegun to the Elephant TD and sent them to Italy. Of course, they were very few (60?) and the rairity cost will be horrific. But still, the long 88 and 250mm armor on that thing is a pain...

My 7 year old cousin (a girl no less) just loves operation Flashpoint to death and calls it "The Army Truck game". She loves driving over Trees with the T-80 or shooting up wave after wave of "Duce and a half" trucks with a Shilka. "See sweety? That there is a M113 APC..." "BLOW IT UP! BLOW IT UP WWWWEEEEEEE!!!!" Just a few days ago I introduced her to the joys of Sptez-Naz troops and their satchel charges. As for CM, I showed her CM:BO once. She thought it was boring till a German arty stike brewed upa bunch of Half Tracks. We watched that replay many times... [ April 19, 2003, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

I got your E-mail, mike, and for all others interested, "The Nippy Challenge" along with a discussion on Soviet vs German Heavy tanks can be found here. I have Russian class now and need to run. I'll be back to edit this post tommorow and give my thoughts on the German heavy kitties... Six different ways to say a verb, Jeebus. Anyway. I've fiddled around with some test battles and here are some ideas for meldorian's KT infestation: - Battle Map. Make it large so enemy forces get spread out, give it light trees and hills, and most of all set the weather contidion to "Raining". That last one along will cure him of his love for the KT. Bog-O-Rific! - Infanty. Use 82mm mortar spotter (6 tube) or on map 82mm/50mm mortars on a reverse slope with a HQ spotter to "strip" away any infantry following the KTs. Don't forget that both also have smoke rounds that can be used to cover flank attacks and generally blind the enemy. - AT rifles. For forcing a tank to button up, I much prefer them over Snipers. They also come in handy if any HTs show up. - Shoot and Scoot. A great way to combat "Cowardly Soviet Tanker Syndrom". At least this way the Soviet tank will get a stable shot off before retreating. It also works for popping out from behind a building and getting a shot off. - Spliting fire. When the time comes for your tanks to engage the enemies, always try to split the enemy tanks fire by 90 degrees. Observe X=T-34 #1 XX=T-34 #2 H=KT O=Hill X O H OXX Both T-34's should pop out at about the same time. With T-34#1 unhiding moments before #2. That way the KT will be too busy targeting T-34#1 with #2 gets a nice flank shot. Engagment Range should never be over 1000m. - Aircraft. Don't bother. - JS-2, and th ISU series. Too slow for flanking. Although the ISU-152's 152mm HE round will rattle a KT to death, they are not really worth it. But, the JS-2 makes for a nice attention getter when going for flank shots. Let the JS-2 go head to head with KT with the T-34/85s flanking. Now for Anti Tank infanty Units. No one unit is really the "best", both have their ups and downs. So Lets examine all of them: 1. Tank Hunter Team (Molotov) - Ugh, the molotov won't do crap. However, the hand grandes they do carry seem to work better than the molotovs themselfs. 2. Tank Hunter Team (RPG Grenade) - The exact opposite of the Molotov. The RPG grenade is more accurate, has longer range, and either kills or immoblizes even a KT in one hit. Max range is 37m. 3. Flame Thrower - With a range of 45m it has the longest reach of any infantry AT weapon. Although not an AT weapon in it self it will get the job done just fine. The setbacks for it are the slow speed and very limited ammunition of the unit. It is interesting to note that even a miss by a FT team will sometimes cause a German tank to "pop smoke" and try to get away. 4. Pioneer squad - What it lacks in range (Stachel charge goes 29m) it makes up for in organic infantry defence, speed, and hitting power. Even near misses by the stachel charge can damage tracks or main guns. I would recommend trying "The Nippy Challenge" a few times till you get the hang of taking out the big cats. The most important thing is to let them come to you. Use the hide command and cover arcs a lot so you can engage them on your terms. [ April 18, 2003, 10:53 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

Years ago I read an interview with a German soldier who said something to the effect: "When they attacked, they did all sorts of different things. The French sang, the Russians yelled, and the Brits played the bag pipes. But the American's, they attacked and killed in silence...that frightened us the most." Now to be fair, the Russians in CMBB got their "UUURRRRAAAHHHH!" with the human wave command. I for one wouldn't mind some off tone Frenchmen or butter fingered Brits making noise while they attack.

The KT only has 80mm side and rear armor (about 30 degrees slope) With standard AP rounds the T-34/85, ISU-122, and ISU-152 can penatrate that much armor at up to 1000 meters. A flanked Kitty is a dead Kitty...

I wouldn't waste points on TH teams for the russians, they very rarely get the job done. At rifles are ok here and there. Not if they are carrying RPG grenades. Isn't that right, oneirogen? "NNOOOOOO NOT THE STUG!" A long time ago I tested them on all sorts of German tanks. Sturm Tigers and Jagdpathers were either killed or immoblized in one hit. ...with the Stug providing covering fire from the hill backed up by HMGs. I really messed up in the unit selection. The 45mm gun on the T-70 just can't handle a Stug. That's why I threw that recon platoon at it in desperation.

I just played my first game against a human (TCP/IP) and got my clock cleaned. It felt great! Anyway, as a hard core Soviet player, here are a few tips I "learned" the hard way. - Always bring along a few Tank hunter teams and AT rifles. Nothing is more embarising than having a HT rape half your forces. - Use support weapons in mixed teams. Ie 82mm, 50mm and a Maxim all work together. - If you can, take the SG43(sp?) over the maxim any day. It's faster and lighter, hence it moves and sets up quicker. - An arty spotter with a radio can bring down a good amount of pain even in a ME battle. Trust me on this. Well, I'm off to get my ass kicked again. P.S. The guy was Finnish. What chance did I have? [ April 12, 2003, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

I might be tempted to get Flashpoint on my son's Xbox... Get the PC version if your system can handle it. Why? One word: MODs. From WWII to prestent chances are you can find and download it. Nto to mention all the missions out there. OFP is a sort of special case. On one hand you have hit points for tanks, wounds can be healed instantly, ect. On the other, real world tactics have their place (read:are a must) and usually make for the best missions. And it has the one thing I wish CM had. Scripting. In OFP I can make AI controled infanty and Tanks work together rather well with the heavy use of waypoints and triggers. In CM the AI assaults look like a large traffic jam. Then again CM, like Chess, is best played against another human.

:confused: Doesnt the Is-2's turret roate? Hmm.. must be something wrong with my version then... </font>

If you want that kind of thing, go play WWII:Online. You can watch France be defeated over and over for all of eternity. Of course, if CM ever manages to get multi-turret tanks, I would love to see the French Char in action.

There must be, as you can make the same thing happen on early war German tanks with the Soviet KV-2. Low kill chance and no *ahem* "Penatration" but the shock effect is murder on both the German tank and any neighboring tanks as well.

They did. It's a special version called Virtual Battlefield System 1. They use it for squad and platoon level infantry training while on ship. Check out the website and google at all the pics: VBS1 Web Site </font>

Also, didn't the Marines by Copies of Operation Flashpoint? I think that West Point bought a bunch of copies of Steel Beasts too. ...oh no! BattleFront is now part of the Military-Industrial complex

I.e., it doesn't matter if you have crack or elite gunners in your T-34/85s if you are 1200 meters away from a Panther that is facing you. Save the Elite crews for the JS-2s. Those things lay down the hurt at over 1000m if given the chance. On the other hand, for the Panther in that situation, you want to shoot as fast and as accurately as possible, before you can be flanked. After running the "Nippy Challenge" with Panthers instead of Tigers, I have found a whole new respect for the Panther. A T-34 can pop up, take a flank shot, and be back under cover before a Tiger can return fire. A Panther has a good change of getting one and maybe even 2 shots off at the T-34 before it hides again. With the Tiger, your grandchilderen will be collecting social security by the time it can face the target. The Panther, despite the slow turret, can slew the whole body of the tank to face the target in a matter of seconds. Not to mention the Panther is faster, bogges less, and has a better/more accurate main gun. Also, platoon wise, you get 5 tanks instead of 4. I was forced to use a 2 Tank JS-2 section to take out a platoon of Panthers after all my T-34/85s blundered into them and got killed. On the flip side, 1 JS-2 took out 3 Panthers. One kill was a +1,200m. You should have seen the look on my face: *KABOOM* "Crap, there is no way that shot will hit..." *CRUNCH* 'Helfa! Helfa!' :eek:

That is just a game guys Yes, but a game based on reality. This is why we pour over all sorts of books and sites and have discusions like this. You charge T-34s across and open field in real life, they get/got hammered (check out the Kursk thread), you charge T-34s across an open field towrads waiting Tigers in CM:BB and they get hammered. As for the whole "Best tank" topic, I think of the tanks as sorts tools. You bring the best tool for the job. What to root out infanty? Bring OT-34s with Canister rounds. What to knock out scores of tanks? Get an Elite JagdPanther. Nothing is really a "catch all" Von Lauchert - As the Germans, that battle is more "self stimulation/gratification" than anything else.

So which would you rather have, 4 Tigers (2 vet & 2 reg) or 6 regular T-34/85s? And in what circumstances? It all depends on the map. If it's flat as a pancake take the Tigers. If it's full of forests and hills take the T-34's. Lets not forget the size of the map too. A huge map with lots of hills and valleys will be utter hell for the Tigers to fight in. The speed and turret rotation rate (Late Mod T-34/85) will leave the Tigers at a large disadvantage. In fact, I have a game called "The Nippy Challenge" along those lines. Here is how you play it. Oct 1944 - Meeting engagment - 2000 points Huge map with light tree cover and modest hills Player is Soviet but buys forces for both sides Soviet Forces X2 T-34/85 Platoons (Vet) X2 Sharpshooters (1 rides on each command tank of the T-34 platoons. Don't let them get very from from the tank, they are supposed to represent the Tank commander scouting on foot) And depending on how hard you want it you get X1 Platoon of T-34/76s (easy), or X1 Platoon SU-76 (medium), or X1 Platoon T-70 (Hard) (All Vet by the way) Germant Forces X1 Platoon of Vet German Kitties (Panther, Tiger, ect) This is a great teaching aid on how to best use the Shoot and Scoot command and is great pratice on how to cordinate tank movments. Nothing looks better than a poor Tiger coming under fire from three sides at once. Then there was time I jumped a JagdPanther with a Platoon of SU-76s. Hehe, good times. Edit: I fogot to mention the benifit of Huge maps with small forces. You can really see the T-34s speed advantage. I can run rings around the Tigers and Jagdpanthers given enough cover. That's how I suckered a Panther Platoon into a game of "Wack-a-mole" with a Platoon of T-34/85s and send a lone T-34/76 charging into the rear of all the Panthers. He got two kills and lived to tell about it. As for the other 3 Panthers, well, when they turned to face the T-34/76 they exposed their sides to the T-34/85s and... [ March 06, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: Nippy ]