SeaMonkey

Anyone wanting an extraordinary SC experience need only look to the SC2 scenario and mods forum for the Vypuero/Nupremal custom campaign release. This is "cutting edge" SC campaign material, simply awesome, filled with lots of the fruit from extensive testing of the earlier versions(SC PT), thank you Nupremal and Rambo.:cool: It is a little more detailed, with a lot of innovative depth and requires more immersion from the players than most other SC campaigns. Superbly balanced, I was quite intrigued by the many strategic options available to players to embark upon. The only SC campaign that required note taking for this veteran to remain oriented, outstanding for human vs human play. Try it, you'll like it!

I believe the decision events allow either Australia or Canada, the obvious choice yells out! If I was the West, I'd want to protect those sea convoys that allows for power projection to the East and ensures a tough invasion of the Western hemisphere.

Thank you JJ for travelling down this well worn road. Eric Raeder's plan, a very plausible "what if".

Come on CDG, when do you ever remember a WW2 formation the size of a corps not having an infantry element, or you could even imagine that the anti-tank upgrade tech for infantry formations(army, corps, egrs, SFs) as the armored contingent. Use your imagination, this is after all a grand strategic game and many things are abstractly represented. We don't want micro-management, nor an AI which is perpetually incompetent. KISS!

Better be careful with that USSR invasion AZ, for as soon as you're out of carrier support range there will be hell to pay against land powers the likes of USSR and Germany. This will be the classic east vs west game with the West having toe holds on the East's perimeter. No doubt the West will be the perennial sea power and the east easily vanquishing land invasions into its territory and potentially controlling all of the eastern hemisphere. Do I need to remind the forum that historically USSR(post WW2) and Germany invested heavily in subs. You know what that sets up!:eek: Lots of resources in the east and a lot of land to defend presents this to be a thoroughly engaging campaign. Can you imagine the battles on the edges of the east? Like I said before, this will more than likely eclipse the regular campaign as the one of choice for h to h contests.

There may be a way to do this now. Start a hotseat game and you can save it at any interval of turn completion and send it to your next ally. At the point when your side is done, all allies have completed their moves, save the game right before ending the turn and send the file to your opponent. Now here's where it gets tricky and the trust thing comes into play because your opponent would have to end the turn as his first action and not look at any of your sides positions. You would also have to be OK with them seeing all the research developments, and perhaps decision events and trust them to solicit you for a decision, it kind of ruins the FoW environment. There is hope though. The one equaling factor is that you now get to return the favor to them, all that trust they showed your side can be reciprocated when they come to the completion of their turn. Of course it would be a lot easier if Hubert would just code a savable PBEM selection and players could deal with the trust factor as they see fit.

I really like that scenario Snow wrote about the Black Sea possibility coupled with the southern effort into Syria, it kind of surrounds Turkey and solidifies an Axis effort to get her to join. The pressure would ensure a compliant Turkey, IMO, and we know USSR is going to be very paranoid about any arrangement Turkey has with the Axis. What about Scandanavia though JJ? I'm with your demand that USSR is making for all weather ports, you know, I know, we all know that's very important to the Reds. Its, at least, an equitable position to the southern possibilities and a very real area for initiation of hostilities. So...how does it erupt? You kind of left us hanging and this is not my area of expertise, but I'm buying the circumstances you've outlined. The fuel's there, it makes sense, but I need a spark for ignition.

Needless to say,"I love it". I see the Balkans and possibly Turkey being the catalyst for the Axis vs USSR scenario notwithstanding the Scandanavian friction. Now does Germany have enough petroleum? UK and France are suppliers, but does Germany feel like the USSR without the Caucasus oil hampers the Red Army operations and gives them an advantage? If so, then perhaps Germany makes a run through Turkey(an ally) into the region to deny USSR the oil supplies. Now this causes UK and France to be uncomfortable because of the proximity to Iraqi oil fields of Kirkuk. Once USSR has been attacked then possibly USA, seeing that they need to be pro-active(a stretch...I know), work with UK, USSR, and clear the Iranian territory for lend lease movement and additional oil supplies. Arabia should somehow enter into the mix as their oil supplies are also to be considered and of course the UK/France cooperation would have to be clandestine at this time owing to the treaty of nonbelligerency. As Germany and Italy prosecute the war with USSR and the Reds get into a more desperate situation, USA opens up an additional lend lease route into Vladivostok, now you know where this will go. Japan, being an ally of Axis, starts to interdict those lend lease supplies, subliminally, and eventually the intercepts cause undue losses of US maritime assets( remember WW1, unrestricted submarine activities). Now we got us a full blown WW2, starting with the Tripartite vs US+USSR, with UK/France waiting in the wings to exact revenge when the possibility of Axis weakness presents itself? Anybody buying?

Ohhhh and John, the only war criminals are the losers!

Like you got room to talk Rambonehead, I beachslapped you right out of the British Isles and you ran.....tail tucked....all the way back to Canada. Had to get the good ole USA to help you back to the continent, so don't talk to me about how tough your Limeys are!

Nope AZ, no Hitler, no Stalin, no FDR, no Churchill, only us, the SC clan, and a world full of nationalistic, imperialistic, communistic, etc. ideologies.:eek: A global map to maneuver on, a diplomatic process, and a way to prosecute full scale mayhem(war) if we don't get our way..........which is to win. So that's it....our playground......now....will the real global dictators please stand up!

Hard to refute your line of reasoning JJ, so I won't! This is exactly the scenario I've been laying out for years as the best chance for an equitable situation East vs West. No doubt the Axis will have to do some extreme maneuvering, both militarily and diplomatically, but none the less a viable alternative to the historical occurrence of WW2. I do believe that the UK would carry on from Canada with the rest of the Commonwealth falling in line and led by the economic might of the USA. The USSR is kind of a wild card, China also, and there are in roads to the East, like the MidEast and India, think about Australia, S. Africa as bases of operations. This would make a great game set in the era of WW2 technological achievement and we include the whole globe as a potential battleground, places that were never ventured into in the reality that was WW2. Now what about those WMDs? As we play into the later years of the 40s, might the endeavors of both players at technology yield some weapons of extraordinary destructive consequence?

Sorry xwood...not buying... I mean come on, with the US 1st Army sitting astride the Ardennes in 1944 and having material superiority they were barely able to stop a well worn Wehrmacht from getting to the Meuse and this was after thoroughly practicing to stop the Blitzkrieg. You really think the BEF and French could've stop those panzers no matter what, just because they spotted the maneuver? I think not! The Allies didn't have a clue how to use combined arms at this time and the commanders in charge were very slow reacting. It happened, I have history to prove it. Sure Seelowe is just conjecture(because the Germans didn't really try it, it didn't fail), so all we have is a simulation to test it...its called SC and it can happen in SC, doesn't prove reality, but you really think the uboats would be just sitting around letting those US arms flow into an invaded UK?

And so it is as it is in SC, you have to establish air superiority over the invasion lodgment to ensure a successful culmination of events. Once that has been done, the #1 priority, the issue still remains in doubt, but to pull this off its one step at a time. Eventually the Luftwaffe should be able neutralize the RN, ie airpower eclipses naval power, and the captured runways would serve to bring in additional troops and supplies until a harbor is cleared for sea transport to begin. Its like most things, simplier said than done, but I have no doubt if the Germans had pursued a well thoughtout plan from the beginning(Fall Weiss), after the Allied DoW, they could have pulled it off. And before you say "not possible", remember everyone thought the French and BEF would put up a much greater fight than they actually did.

One thing about those CVs, I've found those double strikes do way too much damage against land units. I'm OK with the other CTVs, but with experienced aircraft(which is hard to get, but not for the AI on +2) the CVs can do 2 strength damage per strike to ground units. What that means is there is the potential for a 4 strength loss per CV and if you're playing against the Allied AI and they have like 11 CVs working an area, then the upper end of the loss spectrum for ground units can approach 44.:eek: Makes it very difficult to hold any invasion site unless you have all your fighters in the vicinity and they have advanced air levels. IMO an intolerable situation and quite unrealistic, but the good news is its easily fixed.

I'm with you JJ, it seems unlikely US would've come to UKs's aid, militarily, upon a German invasion. SC models Sealion pretty accurately as I have pulled the maneuver off frequently, but its not so much the seaborne invasion part as it is the airborne operation that allows the scenario to succeed. Anyone thinking US had visions of rescuing UK needs to remember that the overwhelming sentiment in the US population and government was that Great Britain was an imperial power, same with the French to a certain extent. The New World didn't look favorably on the old European territorial viewpoint, somewhat hypocritical I must present IMO, so actually the SC mechanism is whether the UK player will allow a prepped Axis player to initiate the campaign, USA is of no consequence. Again, IMO, this is the road that ultimately leads to the Axis victory, sans keeping the west out in an immediate invasion of the USSR.

And what about the contribution of intelligence? Highly reliable stuff, even today, right? Is it intel or propaganda...."only your hairdresser knows for sure", "is it real or is it memorex"? Did they really do that stunt? Was it airbrushed or was it computer aided graphics, no..it was camoflauge.....what was that "out of the corner of my eye"?:eek: Can you really believe anything? Do you want to believe in anything?:confused:

OK, let's say that Stalin was there or wasn't, whether he believed it or not, one thing is we know Fascism and Communism are not exactly compatible, but neither is Democracy and Socialism....so...??? I mean how far do you want to extend this "what if" boundary. Were WW2 leaders capable of backstabbing each other? Did they say one thing and do something else? Is that the nature of humans? Come on a234, sheople can be led down any primrose path if the right manipulation is applied, desperate people do desperate things, just cultivate an atmosphere of imminent peril, sound familiar? Like I said earlier, go straight through Poland and right after USSR and come as the "liberator", the vanquisher of evil communism. Some of those old White Russians will be there to greet you, Ukranians to assist you, not to mention the Baltic states and perhaps the Finns. The right incentive applied, is there any doubt that the sheople won't fall in line? Does history support my thesis? Couldn't be done....you say.....we'll see....and SC Global will be our test bed.

xwood..get off it! You, nor anyone else here is responsible for what your ancestors, countrymen, leaders, etc. perpetrated as acts against humanity. The injustice is not yours to bare. Humans from every walk of life throughout the annals of time have been responsible for despicable acts against one another, the blame is not yours, only the responsibility of recognition is ours to remember and not to repeat. Now, what I would like for SC Global to be is not a reinactment of those horrendous moments of history, but a game of conquest of the imperial nature set in the time and technology of WW2. OK, you can call it somewhat of a "Civ" game, but geared more to the armed conflict spectrum then to the details of nation building. I want to leave Hitler, Stalin, FDR, Churchill, etc behind, they are not the characters in charge here, we are, and we are free within the set of game mechanics to conduct our own war. I'm not forgetting, I'm role playing and I'm a better human than these guys and my only agenda is to have fun, to entertain and share that with you guys. So if I'm playing Germany, I'm not Hitler, he maybe my stooge in an AAR, but I'm going to conduct a smarter campaign than him or any of those other guys previously mentioned or implied. So Germany is just my vehicle for conquest, just like UK, USA, Japan, or USSR will be the next time, sort of like Spain, Portugal, France, Great Britain, Holland etc was in the Age of Discovery, its the same thing. We can discuss and reflect but what's important in exploring the 'what ifs" is that we want to see how it may have been if we did it "better". You know what "better" means, it means smarter, smarter using the resources that we have and we get and people are one of those resources, but simulated so. The last thing I want to think about when I'm playing, entertaining myself and my opponent, is that I'm somehow responsible for one of those extremes from this era, war is enough already. If I want to be a little tougher on my simulated conquered populations for the benefit of my role playing, fine, the plunder options are appropriate, but I'm a bit repulsed by any connections to such things like the holocaust, purges, etc. and I don't want those things accessed in anyway by the game mechanics of SC.:cool:

I love those plunder options JJ. The composite effects from the players' choice of taking MPPs scaled to the severity of suppressive occupation is awesome. Even Rambo comes up with a great feature that also correlates diplomatic leanings/belligerency to the choices the players make. Hubert, this is a really great feature addition and I hope you'll consider it in a future patch as the AI could be set to a random choice at each conquest.

Things have moved along into Dec. 1944 and there have been many developments as I fight the Japanese AI. Except for isolated task forces the IJN is largely "kaput", about time! The only thing threatening the Allied naval forces are the TAC bombers along the coast of Manchuoku and Korea. Early in November Okinawa was invaded and cleared and will now be the staging area for amphibious groups headed to the Chinese and Korean mainland. I intend to invade both so as to divert the AI away from the Japanese homeland, that's what worked in China. I was able to save China by a combination of USA airforces and the British incursions into Burma which diverted the AI attention away from the Chinese operations to the south down the Kunming road. There is still an extensive battle going on in Burma but so far, because I brought in 4 level 3 and 4 USA fighter groups, the situation seems somewhat stable. I also have the USA "Brett" HQ on the way for support and there should be a good logistical base by the end of 1944 in the India/Burma theater. Its apparent the Japanese AI is now operating the Manchuoku garrisons into the Chinese and Burma locals so I'm not sure how long the situation will remain a stalemate, but only just now is the USSR readiness creeping up to 6%. Now back to the Japanese home islands. McArthur and some Marines with tank support landed in early Nov. 44 and took Sendai just northeast of Tokyo. Then with TAC support from Iwo and 7 USN Carrier groups Tokyo was taken and a strong armored task force garrisoned the surrounding area. Further south, Eichelberger landed and took Nagasaki and a strong airbase was established which the Japs immediately counter-attacked. The USN and RN are ranging far and wide around the Japanese main islands with Kamakazis still exacting a toll from Allied surface bombardment groups. Kyoto can be taken on the next turn but I'm not sure the invading force could withstand the inevitable Japanese counter-attack. Even if the US Marines could hold it, I'm not sure the Japs would surrender anyway, so I will take my time and attrite the enemy forces nearby. Elsewhere, without much consequence, the Australian Kanga forces took Davao and the "Blamey" HQ logistical support center has been setup in the Philippines as the Aussis march up, take Legaspi and approach the outskirts of Manila. Doesn't look good for the Japanese as 45 beckons, especially with 6 TAC groups in range of Kyoto and 7 CV groups stationed offshore with another 5 carrier task forces on the way. All the build Q forces, other than naval units, for the USA have been initiated and approximately 7 corps and 4 Marine amphibs are "on the water".

Interesting premise Snow, about D-Day, but just like JJ has iterated, there's no "what if" this late in the War, Axis lose. Timing essentially is the only issue, but of course later starting scenarios would have to reflect that as a victory condition. That's why most of our discussions revolve aroung the earlier war years, when the Axis may have had a chance to make a go of it. One thing though, that hypothetical Rhine position of the Red Army in 1946 could make for an interesting campaign, perhaps Japan would still be around, however weak, they could be a wildcard of some sort. The only pre-existing condition to make things really competitive would be no A-bomb. Nuclear warfare kind of ruins it for me, I prefer the conventional approach.

Hey JJ, believe me the pleasure is all ours, so glad your posting here again, the place surely has the right flavor now, like putting the icing on the cake.

I'm really OK with everything Hubert and Bill have done. You've got to give the AI all sorts of help for it to be competitive. It gets a little unrealistic, but what the heck, its a game! Anyway AZ, I snuck some Chinese tanks in during the dead of night, in a rainstorm that had dogs and cats riding on my tanks, surprised those TAC bombers from the other end of the runway. Never the less those Japs turned those machinegun fixtures on the planes into a concentrated hail of fire, needless to say, very few of the cats and dogs survived, but the 4th Indians were able to turn the tide and the airfield was finally taken. Unfortunately now Jap columns are infiltrating down the Kuching road and it looks like they may retake the airbase. Right after Iwo fell, it was only lightly defended, another nightime excursion just outside the Home Islands, ie Destination Tokyo, I sent in some very fast destroyers coordinated with some subs to reconnoitre the harbor area and as luck would have it the subs got off a spread of torpedos on the Junyo, she immediately sunk, "scratch one flattop".:cool: Now I just got to get them out of there in one piece, so I moved in a carrier task force to cover their retreat, we'll see, but you know the drill, never volunteer for hazardous duty! Here's hoping they make it!

Wait just a cotton-pickin minute here! :eek:Rambo....no one liners summarizing the almost 4 years in the Pacific and Asia? See Snow, we can keep those Pacific campaign references as I'm guessing it was just a little too complicated for Brother JJR.:confused: Perhaps he'll recite a movie title for us to watch which will certainly unravel the mystery?