ozi_digger

Mord, I get the bit about civilians getting killed accidently in every war, but I'd never try and justify 100,000's of [German] civilians getting killed on the grounds of their nation's prevalent political beliefs. Thats as bad as Nazism itself. Try understanding the nature of total war and the limitations of bomber technology and you're probably on the right track. This thread is getting waayyy off topic.

Oh I agree. It was a computer shop BTW. Our laptop blew up and we needed a new one. Even a 5% discount in these circumstances pleases us and works into the hands of Arab hospitality. At the time we could have been a lot more gracious to the hospitality, but sadly we were travelling with some meatheads who just wanted to breeze in, buy what we needed and POQ. Sad really. I keep remembering more about the situation - this tiny store with a tiny storeroom and the guy fishing chairs out for us... classic!

Erik, I agree to a point but do not want to get involved in a political discussion in this forum. Even after CM:SF was announced as a UN action, some have been touting 'the US is gonna kick Syria's ass' line. Lets wait and see. Perhaps the UN will limit US airpower, LOAC (as opposed to ROE) will be a real concern and we can avoid some unconventional aspects of war in this sim that go against Geneva conventions. Keep a cool head mate!

So Ozi Digger what disasters befell your brave German troops...? Details please! </font>

Ahh yes, warm arab hospitality, I remember it well. I recall walking into a shop in not-so-glamorous portion of a city in an unnamed Gulf country. The owner immediately signalled to his boy who got the chairs from out of the store room for us to sit down. Owner: 'Would you like some tea?' You: 'No thanks we'd just like to quickly pick something up.' Owner: 'How about some water, milk, juice then?' And you start thinking to say 'no' would be insulting, so maybe just a glass of juice then... Yes, a 2-minute duck into a shop can easily turn into 10, 15, 20 minutes or more. Ahh, nostalgia...

True, but AIUI pn-sized is somewhat below intended CM scale? </font>

The USAF (and other airforces) have had concrete bombs since WWI. Its just that in this day and age with 'effects based operations' planners and commanders are looking for less-lethal solutions that reduce collateral damage. Some bright spark therefore says - hey lets attach an LGB kit to a dummy bomb so we can use it urban ops! Problem is that dummy bombs tend to richochet - up to a couple of miles in some cases - something you cannot control and something that causes more damage than you think in a totally random direction. A good idea but their use should be tightly controlled. WRT CAS. It depends on the CM:SF background brief and the scenario. The background brief may limit US air power for whatever political reasons or UN feelgood message. If not, the sim would be all unconventional warfare 'cause Syria wouldn't have any tanks left or large infantry formations (this is a rather sweeping statement but there is a grain of truth in it). The scenario? MOUT would restrict air support. The size of your formation, time limits and type of fighting would do likewise. E.g. hey platoon commander, we've been receiving sporadic fire from that green-belt, go and clear it... would be a situation where you're unlikely to receive CAS. But if you're an armoured spearhead leading the charge to Damascus? Then you're gonna have it stacked to the rafters. With a whole bunch of pilots calling you going 'I'm outa fuel gimme something to drop this baby on...'. My guess is that the last example will be few and far between in CM:SF so as to avoid imbalances.

Having recently acquired a copy on ozi-digger's recommendation, I'd strongly suggest that most people will have many better uses for a hundred dollars. The book has 16 chapters; 12 on dropping bombs on things, and then one each on direct fire, indirect fire, mines and S&TA. I doubt that the Battlefront folks will have much to learn from the last four chapters of the book. It might be worth getting for people who have a single-minded fixation about dropping dumb bombs on people, but it's not terrinbly useful otherwise. There's a reason the book is marketed by and to Aeronautical Engineers, y'know. All the best, John. </font>

WRT cluster munitions... A bloke called Morris Driels in his book Weaponeering: Conventional Weapon System Effectiveness provides some answers for figuring out the kill probabilities of air launched cluster munitions. I have droned on about weaponeering before and I have this recommendation for the BFC team: if you don't already have a copy, go and get youself one. AIAA Publication Morris Driels' Weaponeering I am really interested to see how BFC handle US airpower. Especially in conventional style battles. Unless the background brief limits US air power in some way, conventional warfare will be rather one-sided IMHO. SAMs and AAA regardless - realistically they are not a factor! (edit - except versus the A-10) BTW, Driels' book also provides weaponeering guides for ground-to-ground weapons too!

Have you gone back a few pages and seen the eruption? At first its bragging rights from the grogs for being first-to-post after the announcements. Then the tantrums start (or w00t, depending on yer point of view). Its like that Simpsons episode where Ralph gets a crush on Lisa and takes her to the Crusty show. Afterwards, Bart is showing her the video tape: "[sic]..and if you slow it down you can see the exact moment when his heart breaks...[/sic]" I actually started to read a few posts until I realised most were just repeating themselves over and over and over...

Do some work Mace.

I was the same. Last looked at the site on Friday night and fire it up on Monday morning to find three pages of rant and two screen shots. Its like missing 9/11 on TV or something and being the last to find out. Hell, there's even the junior-member-sub-9000-member-number lurkers who are piping up with their opinions. This forum got crazy in a very short period of time. But its funny. Funniest are the guys who obviously didn't read the synopsis in any great detail and just reacted like a scalded cat. "I'm a loyal customer and I won't buy it!", "US invading Syria is unrealistic", "Down with US imperialism!" etc. Oh sheesh. They've even got Kwazy moderating forums because of the numbers of posters. I mean seriously - when was the last time we heard from him? I think I'm happy to lurk for a few days - just reading people's posts and watching Steve and the like getting more and more frustrated. They treat Steve like a Japanese tourist who doesn't speak English. If you SHOUT AT HIM AND REPEAT YOURSELF MAYBE HE WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. Hahhahaha.

On a more (semi) serious note, reading through Steve's statements above leads me to believe we won't be seeing 3rd World vs 3rd World matchups either. I'm not talking about any specific conflict here - more the stuff along the lines of the Ak-47 miniatures game. I reckon it would be kinda fun, but a nightmare for orbat. What would you model? 'Generic, western-equipped third world company' versus 'Generic, eastern-bloc-equipped third world company'? Does this concept require too much suspension of belief? I dunno, but interested if its an idea BFC have toyed with.

So I'm waiting for the day, with all those guns buried in my back yard, and its not gonna happen?

Have you tried the Official History series? To Benghazi, et al?

Oh, and for pity's sake, please *challenge* someone.

This home of Peng is a discarded refrigerator beneath an underpass, I hear you ask the toll? Methinks we should take an unnoficial poll! On what, I don't know. The hijacked and resurrected Peng thread is open for business. This is the end, du, du, dum... my only friend, the end... wiered scenes inside... Well, you get the idea. Smilies to a minimum! *And give me back my shopping trolley* Mwhahahah A puzzle for you if you care to dilly dally... 4 weeks with the wifey/missus/slashother away; I need to pull apart a Kombi and buy parts; Sort undeveloped film; Watch a war film; Make up the Zaniest CMx2 suggestion; Well, the thread runs out in 185 posts or less so thats when the poll ends. I'll be about, until the man decides to lock this thread down. [ October 05, 2005, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: ozi_digger ]

@j_l2: I can only speak from my own experience and that it was the SOP to withdraw - back where you came from - a few hundred metres until you're out of the danger zone. The way the order is conveyed depends on the training I guess. Again the SOP would be for the the commander to shout it out (i.e. 'bug out!' or 'retreat!' or 'withdraw!' or whatever) and for everyone who hears it to repeat the order at the top of their voice. Not foolproof, but simple, and hope that everybody in your section/platoon gets the message.

Back in the day (15 years ago) I had similar training to what von Churov described. It didn't really depend on the terrain, just if you were dug-in or not. If caught on the move and artillery/mortars start coming down the SOP was to quickly withdraw (i.e. run) a few hundred metres. I use the same method in CMAK. If caught in the open by artillery I'll withdraw, usually using the run command, back to the nearest bit of cover. The run command isn't that bad, because you get little gaps in the barrage (y'know - between 'firing' and 'landing and exploding'). I had a recent game against AI and an FO targeted a platoon on the first turn. Some sections panicked, others did not, but I basically ran who I could back out of the danger zone. Conversely, in a recent CMBO pbem, my troops advancing thru scattered woods and pines were caught in a 105mm barrage. Knowing I'd run out of turns if I withdrew a little, and would get cut up if I stayed in place, I just kept advancing my men. In that case I wasn't under small arms fire either and the best way was forward. I guess, like a real commander, you have to do a quick appreciation of the tactical situation and decide on the best course of action.

I just had a look at that web site of joeshmoe and I'm a bit dissapointed - there's no Pet of the Pool category. What gives, huh? I reckon the RSPCA and PETA are gonna hear about this...

You forgot to mention bending the gun barrel dammit! (Think crashing into something solid, not a fence, or even moving through woods) Which, IMHO, would be #1 or #2 on the list and therefore a reason for not playing demolition derby.

I'm going to claim a foul on this one MD, or are you going to make me play through? If you make me play through then I'm going to remind you that accepting the rantings of an insipid serial-poster (more than you I might add) will a)make you appear to be a clueless git who has paid the above poser to 'write sumfink bad in this thread' and lower myself to some fairly undiplomatic language levelled at said insipid serial-poster (i.e. leg-wetter).

Geez Seanachai, you'd better have another drink, you're beginning to sound... lucid.

Easy tiger... back up a little there bloke. This thread will be locked before it can get a decent debate going. I'm not in the business of fantasising what BFC can add to CMx2 to make it better for me. Or to showcase my skills or whatever. I just want a realistic simulation thats not overly commercialised to suit unwashed masses. Case in point is the constant demand we should be able to add sumfink, with a toggle, so if people like me don't like it I can switch it off. So who says you're the majority and I'm the minority? Who says that development time should go toward a gizmo? Can I still play the scenario if I've switched off "Ubermultimedia Briefings" in the settings screen? I'm not necessarily saying your point of view is bogus, but lets consider all of the facts, not just the ones that suit the particular argument we're running with at the time.

I know you really meant to say - *in best ocker, blokey sounding voice* Seanachai: No worries, mate!