Thin Red Line

Jean Reno is french. He is born in Casablanca, Morocco, in 1948, his first nationality was spanish, since his parents are castillans immigrants and his true name is Juan Moreno Errere y Rimenes. After his military service, he definitively settles in France at age of 17 in order to escape the fascist Spain. [ December 09, 2002, 12:02 PM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

I'm playing a 1942 scenario where 2 regular soviets light tanks (45mm guns) engage an axis armored car (BA10 ?) at 1900 m and after a couple of shots, both AFVs hit the target and score a kill. The car was shooting back before being hit. In the beginning of the engagement i thought that this was a waste of ammo, but seing the good result i wonder how likely it is to hit such a small target with a small/medium caliber gun at such a long range. Was the 45mm gun very accurate ? Were the optics good enough for that kind of combat ? Was it even possible ? I'm asking especially when in another scenario i observed Tigers missing massive T34s 3 times in a row at 250m (but there was a snow storm).

I didn't see it. Do you have a link ?

I'm experiencing the same with an armored car, battle 2 of an operation. The HQ car was killed the previous batlle, now the car is under command line of an infantry platoon. Weird, but not absolutely unrealistic.

I'm playing Fall Blau in PBEM at the moment, i've the same file size when vehicules are moving, but it is perfectly normal IMO. Many vehicules with numerous waypoints, a huge map (and a beautiful one BTW, by far the best mountain map i've seen until now) easily explain a 2MB text file.

I've seen Panthers in cmbb routing several squads with this weapon. The effect on infantry is really devastating.

Nice mod Juju ! For the color, i think traditionally the soviet red is lighter and brighter than the 3rd Reich red. It's historically correct , IMO. But i wonder why does the german icon bar has a black contour, when the russian doesn't ? It doesn't match. I think the icon doesn't need it. Anyway, thank you.

LOL

Bump because it is certainly as an important question as 'blowing off turrets ?'

But 'Follow vehicule' is not an order in itself ; to get it, you can use assault, advance, move, etc., if i'm not wrong. Does the game differenciate the style of attack regarding what specific order you gave ? (sneaky attack, simple rush, walking paced assault...)

I noticed in several scenarios the reluctance of TacAi (both Russian and German) to use tungsten when it is available. After the range finding and a couple non-penetrating hits i'd expect the tank commander, or the battery leader, to ask his crew to switch to 'T' shells. But it doesn't always happen. What i'd like to know is what parameters does the TacAi consider ? Is there a rule applicable (i.e. after 3 hits, try tungsten) ? Or is the TacAi trying to save tungsten rounds if there is the slightest theorical chance of penetration with standard ammunution ? [edit : spelling] [ December 03, 2002, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

John, I think a shocked HT crew under intense AT rifle with a lot of penetrations should logically 1) Pull back 2) Or bail out Seing 14mm tungsten rounds repeatedly hitting the inside of the vehicule must be very uncomfortable.

**** A Deadly Affair and Prokhorovka SPOILERS**** I agree but a platoon appearing in the open right in a middle of a german convoy only to be slaughtered by 20mm the following turn is useless. I prefer to organize a good ambush better than watch them die hopelessly. And my russian PBEM partner in Prokhorovka was not really happy to loose his 12 reinforcements tanks which popped already encircled.

I've seen the same. I can send a file if needed.

I've played this week-end 2 good scenarios versus human : Prokhorovka-Finale and A Deadly Affair. Unfortunately in both cases the games were partly spoiled because russians reinforcements popped up right in the middle of the axis troops. Anybody had the same problem ? [ December 02, 2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

I've read numerous accounts about WWII, many are telling heroic stories, but i'm not sure how they reflect the average combat experience of men at war.The Naked and The Dead by N. Mailer is much closer to reality, if you ask me. And personnaly i've no combat experience, only very good memories of my military service in the South Pacific (French Navy). edit : good remark i agree it is subject to discussion especially for the East Front (but not the Western Front IMO). [ November 29, 2002, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

JaegerMeister, i'm not pretending of course that the game engine is perfect but i don't think irrational reactions should be completely ruled out. What was the result of their action ? Is the unit eliminated ? [edited because i made a confusion beetween routed and eliminated] [ November 29, 2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

Casualties in game are an abstraction. What you describe is already depicted in the game by the casualties in the squad. So if over 9 men only 1 is panicking you'll have 8 men OK, 1 casualty. At least this is how i understand the manual on the subject. [ November 29, 2002, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Thin Red Line ]

Now what am i supposed to do with those things ? To use them like wheeled and fast MGs in infantry support ? (It is a recon scenario, it is unlikely i'm going to meet heavy armored ennemy forces, probably ACs only). Any ideas ?

Because they are lighter ? Is that modelled in cm by the ground pressure and low risk of bogging ?

I tend to consider that every squad with more than 2 or 3 casualties and is still fighting is somehow heroic...

They are panicked and have one only idea in mind : get out of here ! Such behaviour is common in real war

Of course, we are discussing fine tuning here. Just giving some feedback.

****SPOILER**** RUSSIAN PLAYER DON'T READ Yes, i've a pretty similar experience in PBEM. Every gun opening fire is quickly silenced by the overhelming number of armored targets... With some luck the 105mm gun can destroy a T34 at 200/300m, but not much more. They must be positioned carefully during the set-up, and i would not recommend the 105mm guns default set-up (but to be honest i didn't try it). Many russian human players won't attack frontally anyway. But the infantry fought well, taking a couple of tanks lost in the trees near the river bed. I think the short turn limit is the only chance of the Germans in H2H play.

Thanks for the info Dschugaschwili.