jwxspoon

What, your current opponents aren't worthy... jw

I am not sure how it worked in World War II, but my first MOS in the Army was as an FO. When setting up our positions we had several duties, but there were two primary missions. One was to register the DS Battery (a real pain, too. The guns are registered 1 by 1 and it takes a while 'Gun 2, right 25, drop 25, gun 2 is adjusted. Gun 3, shoot, over.') The second misison you prepare is your Final Protective Fire Misison (or FPF), which is a final all-asset mission designed to stop an enemy attack and allow your guys to unass the AO, or to help in a last ditch defense. The FPF is a specific fire mission, but also includes all HMG's, mortars, etc. I don't know how this could be coded into the game, so consider this for informational purposes only . [ February 08, 2002, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]

Swamp is an excellent player. I consider myself a mid range player, about average probably, and the three games I have played against him were not even close. Swamp has a firm grasp of both infantry and armored tactics. His use of artillery is masterful, the best I've ever seen in my 150 games of multiplayer CM. He keeps his infantry moving all the time, making it very difficult to catch them in one place to pound them. In my last game with him he chased and close assaulted a Jumbo Sherman with regular infantry - I mean chased as in over 100 meters backward before my tank was backed up against a wodline. Why was my tank unsupported, you say? It wasn't, it's just that my two platoons of supporting infantry were busy recovering from two turns of on target heavy german mortar fire (carefully coordinated ith the advance of his infantry and the eventual demise of my Jumbo). He's fun to play against. He will make you a better player, will not rub your nose in it unless you are an ass, and will help you if you ask as to what you could have done different. JW

Ahh, Mr. Londoner, believe it or not, I can agree with a lot of what Mr. Dorosh is saying and has said on other threads in the past. I think his arguments are well researched and no doubt he believes what he is saying. This all started when I responded to JasonC's thread in which he talks about the changes he believed necessary to make the MG's more effective in the game. In responding I cited my first experience under fire as a young soldier (which, incidentally was not in Panama, but Grenada. Panama came 7 years and a whole lot of experience later) to perhaps help provide some "on the ground" insight as to what we did when under fire, and what is different about being fired upon by an HMG versus small arms. Obviously the actions of a company of US Army Rangers attempting to seize an airfield are quite different from the tactics used in WWI or, for that matter WWII as well. I am no expert on WWI tactics and my only knowledge is from general history accounts and talking with my paternal grandfather (a private in Pershing's AEF) before he passed away. However, that doesn't change the feeling I have, based upon personal experiences in 9 years of US Army special operations experience, that the HMG's in Combat Mission are undermodeled in their suppressive effect and their damage effect at medium to long ranges. Personally I believe that few people understand how powerful a weapon a properly used HMG is. I tried to communicate this in my previous posts, got my back up at some of Mr. Dorosh's comments, and things went downhill from there. JW

LOL OK I guess I deserved that. My apologies for my smart mouth. We are both entitled to our opinions, however different their basis. Jeff

You must know what you're talking about, Mr. Dorosh. After all, you have read some books about it. Therefore, CM HMG's must not be undermodeled (that was what this thread was about, wasn't it? It certainly was what I was posting about). No further comment. JW

I feel your pain, Biltong. A couple of my scenarios have been downloaded well over 100 times and still only have 3-5 reviews. That being sid, I download a lot of scenarios that I don't play for quite a while. I read the reviews as they come out, download the likely looking scenarios, and play them later when i have time. JW

Rereading the comments posted on this topic I'd just like to mention a couple of other things that go "beyond the stats" as far as I am concerned and might reflect upon the suppressive value of the MG's. A heavy machine gun such as the .50 cal is very hard to get away from. It knocks down brick walls, punches completely through trees, penetrates sandbags easily (often taking a couple of surrounding sandbags with it) and is scary as hell. There is nowhere to go if you are in the open or unable to remove yourself from the gunner's line of sight or his ability to guess where you might be. This still does not make my point. Understand that this is a through and through round for an M113 APC - in one side and out the other. This is a weapon that will still knock the crap out of whatever at hits at close to 2000 meters. In Panama a good friend of mine, Clark Barr, at that time a sniper from 7th Special Forces Group was near an aircraft hangar with his team medic when a convoy of vehicles from the 82nd came by and, seeing them, proceeded to fire up their position. Clark and the SF medic, Bob Otis, scrambled and hid behind a 20-ton air conditioning unit. Isolated rounds from the vehicle mounted M60's penetrated THROUGH the AC unit. Clark said he carefully positioned himself behind the AC unit, Bob, and Bob's aid bag. Luckily, neither was hit. Incidentally, Clark has fired the Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle accurately at ranges exceeding 1500 meters... (he adds "you'd better be a big boy if you're firing that thing, too") An MG42 (kind of a supercharged M60 as far as rate of fire is concerned) will penetrate any kind of "wet" tree (palm, etc.) with a single round, and will penetrate hardwoods, single layer sandbags, and brick or cinder block walls with 2nd and 3rd round hits. This is demonstrated with various 7.62mm rifles at SOTIC and it will raise your eyebrows to see it. JW [ February 04, 2002, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]

Sure Tom, The incident I referred to took place on Oct 25, 1983, at Point Salinas airfield on the island of Grenada. We flew in the prior evening from Hunter AAF; the first birds dropped troops 30 minutes or so late onto the airfield (around 5:30 - about 30 minutes after the marines had landed on the other side of the island - this was supposed to be simultaneous) and immediately found they had a pitched battle on their hands. The intel we were supposed to have gotten from a Seal team about the status of the airfield did not materialize; we found out later they were off floating in the atlantic ocean for the next 24 hours until they were picked up. Because our radios did not match frequencies with the Marines, we were pretty much in the dark about what was going on. We orbited over the ocean for a while and finally our birds came in and dropped around 0700. It was a real mess because the chalks were out of order and we were taking fire. The 1st Bn troops had pretty much organized but there was a lot of shooting back and forth. The Cubans had blocked the airfield with stakes and poles and had construction equipment sitting out, as well as piled up sandbags, etc. Very soon after we were down we began taking MG fire from two BTR-60's located further down the airfield. They advanced toward us but retreated after several LAW's were fired at them at extreme range. While this was going on, our 60mm mortars set up along the side of the runway to place fire on them and the Cuban positions. It was a real mess because each of us only carried 1 or 2 mortar rounds in our rucks, and we had to collect them as quickly as possible. These rounds were fired off as quickly as we could collect them by direct lay (the mortar gunner directly aiming and firing each weapon). During this time we received quite a bit of small arms fire, mostly AK fire, which did not bother us too much, but then we began receiving heavier HMG fire, which we would hear passing us even before we knew we had been fired at. Shortly thereafter the word was that a mortar had taken out one of the BTR's with a top hit, and the other was destroyed by an A6 from the carrier Independence offshore. Within a couple of hours we had secured the perimeter and had captured somewhere around 250 Cubans and Grenadans. My point in my posts above was that when under fire from these weapons you know it very quickly. The rounds sound different when they pass and/or hit near you. In any case I am grateful that the Cubans were not better fighters or more prepared for our arrival - it was evident they were preparing for us from the partially completed fighting positions. Hope this answers your questions. JW

Michael, I certainly wasn't attempting to compare anything I had seen or heard to WWI fighting, or WWII or any other major conflict. However, I was trying to illustrate that most troops have a healthy respect for and are aware of the suppressive power of a Heavy Machine Gun and in my opinion these effects are not adequately modeled in CMBO. Since WWI was brought up as the comparison under the premise of "CM's MG's are modeled correctly - compare by setting up a WWI style assault" it seems relevant to me; after all the point of the thread is the results of the poll question over at Combat Opinion. And BTW, when I hit the ground, I would like to think training had something to do with it, but I think "Holy SH&%^%" would be more descriptive of my frame of mind at the time:p . I don't get involved in these "grog threads" very often, but when I do it is because I have some personal knowledge of what the hell I'm talking about. JW

Excellent post, Jason. I must say that I believe you are right on target with your modeling. I do not have your knowledge in terms of the makeup of a typical WWI attack/defense, but I can tell you from personal experience that when an HMG is fired in your direction, whether directly at you or simply in area fire, you immediately CEASE your movement, hug the ground, and try to think of a way to either eliminate the HMG or find an alternate route. Nobody, but NOBODY is going to be moving in normal IMT rushes unless there are no other options. Add to that the fact that an HMG position on the defense is often quite carefully prepared (read: well entrenched) and supported by properly sited individual fighting positions, and you have a tough nut to crack without armored support or some type of indirect fire (in WWII that would mean mortars, rifle grenades, etc.). I have been in the singularly unexciting position of having an HMG fired in my direction from an armored vehicle only a few hundsred meters away. Certainly nothing I carried on my person could have eliminated that vehicle and I was most definitely aware of that fact. The vehicle was subsequently destroyed, but until that happened the only people not keeping their heads down were the AT gunners and the mortars. I am sure that BTS has given thought to how to more appropriately model crew served MG fire. I seem to recall hearing that one way in which it may be changed within the current engine dynamics is by increasing the rate of fire. I can only hope that the ammunition load out is going to be increased per weapon. JW [ February 03, 2002, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]

I told Captain Wacky this yesterday, but want you all to know, that version 2.0 of the sound files and the uniforms are awesome! What a super job in both areas! I particularly like the sounds of two or three of your armored vehicles lighting up some enemy infanty caught in the open. Makes an old grunt cringe! jw

"Fun" is a 3 part scenario featuring 15 turns of recon vs recon action, which over the course of the game (60 turns) is supplemented by ever increasing armored force. Good for an ME with another player. Not good against the AI. Get it at the scenario depot http://www.dragonlair.net/combatmission/ jw

Hi Ryan, It will be good for AI if you play Axis and add 25% to the Allies. Make sure the computer sticks to the scenario default setup! Thanks, JW [ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]</p>

Looking for a good, even, TCP or PBEM slugging match ME scenario? Look no further - go to Admiral Keth's fine website: http://www.dragonlair.net/combatmission/ Download "Walk on the Wild Side" and please review your scenarios so we can make them better! JW

mmmm Yes please send me a copy at jweatherspoon@sc.rr.com

I agree, he did apologize and as far as I am concerned the matter is closed. jw

I also was the recipient of one of these games, blindly going on getting my butt kicked in the scenario before I read about this on the Blitz ladder. I will not rehash my opinion here but suffice it to say that there is little doubt in my mind what occured. I don't buy the "whoops, honest mistake" thing. jw

Downloaded it last night. Thanks! jw

Looks interesting. Fire it over, to jweatherspoon@sc.rr.com JW

I believe I've said something similar about swamp once...er twice....er....five times. "If it weren't for the arty, I could've had him..."

Good job Valve! Keep them coming. jw

I did not use grenades in combat, being either too far away or too close when the action came up, but I was always quite nervous with hand grenades. In practice it was always quite an adrenaline rush to throw a live grenade, and my accuracy suffered as a result. In combat I wasn't putting my CAR-15 down for anything. Handling a live grenade is a two handed operation for me because I can just picture old butterfingers Weatherspoon dropping the live grenade at my feet, or lobbing the pin and dropping the grenade. In Panama this happened to a guy I knew from 7th SF Group. We were extensively trained in room clearing and CQB and still when push came to shove he threw in his grenade and followed it into the room. Didn't kill him but screwed him up pretty bad. Another screwup in Panama that I remember was a guy throwing a grenade through an open door, not realizing there was a screen door closed there. Of course the grenade came right back at him. That one didn't kill him either, but it was a significant emotional event. JW [ 01-02-2002: Message edited by: jwxspoon ]</p>

er....Volkswagen? Doh! Thanks for the heads up. JW

It's March, 1945. World War II has been going on a long time. Wounded badly early on and mustered out, you've watched the ebb and tide of war until it is now certain Germany will taste another defeat... you have found yourself in charge of your local Volksturm, reinforced by some Army regulars and a bit of armor... To your front are the approaching Americans, a finely honed combined arms machine grinding everything in its path. To your rear is a small village - your boyhood home. It's up to you to defend them. Get the scenario "Welcome to My Neighborhood" at http://www.dragonlair.net/combatmission/ Enjoy! jw