c3k

The barbarians are at the gate!

Well, to carry on with my previous example... Say I WANT Waypoint 7 to Target that house, but only for 5 seconds. I've Paused at Waypoint 7 for 5 and have Target. I don't want to keep targeting that house. Clear Target at 8 will NOT work. Instead, at 8, I'd have to give a covered arc or face (along the path). Clear Target doesn't get attached to the waypoint: it can only erase an order AT that waypoint. Then, at 9, I'd make sure there's no target command at all. (That'd be the clear target.) So... My unit gets to 7: Pauses for 5 and shoots for 5 at the house. As it goes towards 8, it continues to try to shoot at the house. (Target order at the house which was initiated at 7 is not superseded until waypoint 8 is reached.) Reaches waypoint 8, it goes to Covered Arc. (Say, sideways to the path.) Reaches waypoint 9, where I've deleted the covered arc, the turret realigns with the hull. Tank merrily follows the rest of the points to 33. (Note: placing a covered arc at 8, THEN deleting it with Clear Target MAY delete the Target order from that point on. Hmmm, need to check...)

LOL...to beat a dead horse. Say in my WeGo orders phase, on waypoint 8 I have a Target command against a house. Then I merrily place waypoints 9, 10, and on through 33. Suddenly, I remember that the house by waypoint 8 is going to be entered by my own infantry around that time frame. Crap. Imagine having to erase 25 waypoints? (Back in the day we had to: that's also back when we walked uphill, both ways, to school.) Rather than erasing, or giving a "fake" target order (covered arc, etc.), I select that waypoint, and Clear Target. Whew.

Laser guided artillery: someone (JK?) posted a great link on the Soviet/Russian stuff. The lasing team has to coordinate with the specially trained gun-team. Orientation of the laser matters. They need to be under the shell's path, plus or minus 15 degrees. The lase has to start at a specific time prior to impact. The shooters have to loft the shell into a specific basket for it to catch the laser. It's more complex than pointing a laser at a tank and waiting 10 seconds for it to go "boom". The longer you lase, the shorter you live. But that's not what this thread is about...other than the "shorter to live" part.

Well, I play WeGo almost exclusively. If you use Real Time, Clear Target may be even MORE important. If I give a unit a "hard" target order, meaning that -I- command something...Target, Target Light, Face, Target Briefly,...then that unit will follow that order until it runs out of ammo, is destroyed, or senses a threat to self-preservation which forces it to seek cover or fire at the new threat. I am taking control away from the TacAI and forcing a target decision. Clear Target gives targeting control back to the TacAI.

Bah. Grab the edge! If the enemy appears to teleport into position, it must be because there's a tunnel from which they have just disgorged! Victory in all things at all times at any cost!

^^^ Part of that is interesting. The Abrams' combat edge is dependent, in a large part, to its sensors and other "soft" parts on the outside of the vehicle. Sure, a hit on an Abrams may not turn it into a tracked volcano, melting in place. But if you blind it and destroy its weapons controls, who cares where it goes? The Kriz is a pretty slick ATGM system...in-game. The Abrams' front armor is probably the toughest target it will face. It's not surprising that an Abrams will not go "boom" each time one of these missiles hits it.

LOL! Yeah, it can get tough having all the 20/20 hindsight critiques. Perfect is the enemy of good enough. The sign of a good commander is his ability to pick the least worst option in a situation characterized by chaos, confusion, and an uncooperative opponent. Antaress73 does make a valid point...which doesn't matter in this battle. I'm reminded of the '30's Sandhurst officer tests vs. those of the Wehrmacht. The British (and everyone else but the Germans) focused on the "Perfect" book answer and graded their officers accordingly. The Germans took them out in the field, gave them 5 minutes, and then had them walk through what they'd just ordered. I'll leave it to you to determine which type of decision making led to better tactical results. What antaress73 probably meant was, "Bil, you shouldn't fight in an area with rolling hills, built up zones, and dense foliage. Only battle the US/UKR in this fight when you have more advantages." (Okay, that was tongue in cheek.) FWIW, I think Bil's done a fantastic job in this battle. I don't mean that lightly: his aggressiveness against the US/UKR screening force was as unanticipated as it was effective. It'll be interesting to see how the next part of the battle shapes up. Ken out.

Very nice! I -thought- the Tunguska actually had two dual cannon? Total of four cylinders of smoking death! Reinforcement strategy: sure, a pre-planned linear smoke mission would be nice. You know, if you're the kind of guy to hide behind a curtain while you try to figure out what to do. Pop smoke??? Is that the kind of attack they're teaching US Armor officers these days? Sheez. What did they used to say? Hmm. Oh, this is it: "Panzers, marsch!" HUNT, SLOW, FAST: it doesn't matter! Sure, you'll have losses. That will only elevate the actions of those who survive. Attack! You've been given a knife: stab the enemy with it! Plunge it into him. It doesn't matter where, or how deep, just draw blood! It's the will, not the result, which matters. Hide behind smoke and you'll let all your men think it's okay to hide when the fight is on. How many Abrams can he kill in a single turn anyway?

Expanding on the movement technique: the unit will CONTINUE its last combat order to the next waypoint UNLESS you change it. So... Move tank to firing position, Pause for, say, 20 seconds while Targeting the enemy. Add a Reverse command and at that waypoint give the tank a Face or Covered Arc. The new combat command (Face or Covered Arc) will cancel the Target command. The movement waypoints can be very short. The importance is the delay and then the non-shooting target command. Play with it...

Tree cover is a tank's best friend...

Bah! I've seen clowns get out of vehicles more combat worthy than that Hummer Bil destroyed!

LOL! Excellent ERA frustration!!! I feel your pain...

LOL! No gamey jeeps left to mar the beauty of the blood board! (Yeah, JK, it's a friggin' jeep. Kind of like the Marine telling me he was a tank driver. Upon further discussion, his tank was a LAV. I told him the LAV was closer to the National Lampoon family vacation wagon than a tank. He took it as it was meant. ) T-90s are impressive. Tough to lose one like that. Thanks for the post. Ken out.

There, did it for you. Okay...ranges, the game, tanks, and the gamesquad post (which I have not read). As addressed above, the maps can greatly exceed the effective range of main guns...against other tanks. In fact, this is prompting me to try something. (Secret test protocol enacted! Whiiiiiishhhhh) The game plays amazingly well, imho. Look at Bil and Scott: at knife fight ranges, everyone dies fast. Really fast. The slightest advantage/leverage gets magnified and the lethality is unforgiving.

Girth. 'Nuff said.

Thanks for posting this!

Hmm, these last posts are getting me itchy to fire up my CMSF Nato module.

...and the winner of the "Day Late and Dollar Short" prize is....

Gah!!! I am sfhand's oppo in this battle. I hasten to add that I did NOT try to find out any intel by reading this: although my heart did flutter with pride watching my fighter shred that Ami truck!! sfhand emailed me about a truck going through a house, so I poked around and found this thread. Sigh. I see so many targets, so many opportunities. I will let each of his men die GLORIOUSLY. That is my gift to them. There is a line of demarcation across the ridgeline. I am adhering scrupulously to that. Some arty rounds are landing beyond that, but that is just part of the spotting process. As well, that fighter attack was due to an area target well short of the demarcation zone. I will bow out of this thread lest I discover intel which would affect gameplay. In the meantime, yes, the map is wonderful, the space is fun, and I have so many opportunities to kill my enemy that I hardly know where to start! If I ever receive reinforcements, I will make them wait. My men who are presently on the map tell me they don't want to share the spoils. I understand, men, I understand... For the record, I don't consider anything I've seen to be a spoiler. I -know- what he's got coming over the hills. I -assume- he's got a bunch of green targets on his side of the hills. Ken out.

Not detracting from your observation, however, this is a beta build. I'm not sure if Bil and Scott are using the latest build or not. (Frequently, as the builds progress, saved games cannot be used. In an AAR, a restart would not be possible, so they may be using an earlier build.) As part of the beta process, TacAI gets looked at...a lot. Issues such as overuse of ATGM's rather than autocannon would be a prime item to look at and tweak. Ken

Frogfoot no doubt missed because of SAM evasion. Are you SERIOUSLY counting that Hummer on your bloodboard??? C'mon, that's like calling a scooter a motor vehicle. It is unworthy of being alongside TRUE combat vehicles. Keep the purity of the bloodboard line!

I thought the sound was just Scott doing some heavy mouth breathing as he tried not to curse out loud!

Huh. It was actually a legitimate site! Now I can call my wife back in the room. Thanks.

mmmph, mmmph, mmmph. Ahhh. Waffles. Excuse me a moment. "click". There. Now the door is closed. Only those already entered will be considered. They will be weighed, and then found wanting. Only one shall win! Ken out.