Gpig

Sweet ba-jeezers, that's cool Tarkus. Love that splash screen. Can you show us bigger version? Pretty please? Thanks, Gpig

Cool! There was "interrogation?" Heh heh. I missed out on a lot of fun. But some of that list above we've already got in the CM series; support weapon (SW) breakdown and repair (Jam and clear?) Fanaticism AFV overrun (against AT guns, anyway) Wounds (not just dead or alive) (do you mean walking wounded?) Tunnels (sewer movement) AFV in woods (trail breaks) (scattered trees, but I know what you mean) Orchards Building levels > 2 (currently CM has 2-4 story buildings. But they are abstracted.) AFV MG/MA targeting (different targets for each) Jitter fire (at night) Paradrops (random reinforcement all over the map) Swimming (fords) Might have to break out the old board games . . . Gpig

Well said, Hoolaman. If they're going to do 1:1 rep, then they have to address Close Combat somehow. I'm sure they'll figure out a nice way to do it that involves somewhat less than 300 martial arts moves. David, if you don't mind me saying this . . . they are setting you up. Goading you closer and closer to a "rant." Then they'll look like winners by comparison. (Even if they aren't) Don't let the Dark Side win. Let it go. Gpig

Ignore the Grog-troll, lads. (Groll?) So, who's going to fire up the next 300 post thread on this very same issue? Heh. Gpig

I agree, Kip Watson. I can imagine that Close combat will provide one of the big challenges for the 1:1 representation issue. Bayonets and rifle butts. It happens often enough in CM games and it would add another level to the gaming experience when watching all your little warriors mixing it up in the trench line. Or bursting in the ground floor of the enemy strongpoint. There are many great things that could come out of the new 1:1 displays. Troops embarking and disembarking. Advancing and Assaulting (leapfrogging), etc. Mortar teams working. Crews bailing out. But Close Combat will really be thrilling AND chilling to watch. Once the ORDERS are in and the 'puter crunches the numbers it'll know how the Close Combat ends. All's you have to do is sit back and root for your guys. Two squads enter Close Combat with each other, both Veterans. Both Fanatical. There might just be one guy left standing . . . It already happens in CM, but now you'll get to (or HAVE to) watch each blow. Each fallen man. CMx2 is going to be VERY good. It's CM on crack.* Gpig *Not that I'd know what THAT's like . . .

Pretty cool. That Tiger is the one based on the T-34 chassis, I guess? Looks cool. That one picture of the greyhound sneaking around behind the Tiger reminds me of some CMBO battles. Heh. Thanks for posting. Gpig

Those screen shots from War time command are amazing! Check out the fact that even the steering is working on that halftrack. I believe that Wartime command will have smaller ammounts of overall units, is that right? Sort of like Close Combat did? 10 to 12 units per side? So maybe this level of animation/modelling works fine for that scale of game. But I'd be blown away if this level of animation and scale can be achieved for CM battalion sized engagements. Blown away, but very happy. Gpig EDIT: Hey Noiseman, cool images. May I ask what program you used to create those? [ January 27, 2005, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Gpig ]

Now they can be portrayed as men in horse costumes. 2 men per horse. (One with LMG) And you can split the 2 man horse costume team into front (head and forelegs) and rear (ass). LMG stays with the ass. But no horses.

No no, GreenAsJade. You are right. Your "strong impression" is correct. Individual actions (1:1 representaion) will still be mainly eye candy. There is already some individual tracking that goes on in the current CM series. It's just that they are not REPRESENTED individually in a visual sense. (Modelled.) Now (CMx2) they will be tracked individually AND modelled individually. So you'll be able to see the LMG gunner, the riflemen and the NCO (with the SMG). Gpig

Do you mean a Tank Hunter Team? Sure, I'll give it a go. If Tom'll post it, I'll put one up tomorrow, sometime. Gpig

That sounds AWESOME, Steve. I'm looking forward to seeing it. Sorry for running off at the moth (and pencil). It's the prospect of the best wargame getting even better. Gpig P.S. Thanks again, Tom. You're a CHAMP!

No, there *will* be a map editor. At least I'm almost certain after having read everything that Steve has posted in the last 7 days. They aren't going to take away our ability to make maps and scenarios. Yay! Gpig

Dude. That is awesome! I agree about the pic of the squad in the yard. I drew them too big. Pretty soon I'd run out of room. Those 12 man squads are going to take up a lot of real-estate when each soldier is depicted in game.

Mr. Dorosh, you truly are a grognard. I should know better than to try and defend myself from someone who loves to hate, but here goes . . . I stand here accused of showmanship, rude behaviour and worse. I bought the book you referred to by Matthew Gajkowski, in fact that's where I got the squad placement, marching order, positions and deployment ideas from. The defensive position is just an "idea" about how a squad of 12 men might appear in a CM setting. If -you- had to place 12 men in foxholes on a CM map, how would -you- do it? Bearing in mind the current spacing that a squad takes up in CM. How much space your other 2 squads take up. Plus where the 3 to 9 men in your HQ squad would set up and still be in command range. Would you put them in a big circular crater? 12 men in a hole (like it is now?) Or would you set about trying to figure out a way to disperse those men? The other pictures are just visualizing "out loud." I feel you may have misinterpreted my intention. It was just to share in the Sesame Street sense. You remember Sesame Street, right? I have not set out to insult Battlefront. Far from it. I am so impressed with the talents there that I've bought all the products they've produced and played them for endless hours. Enjoying every minute. While I readily admit to retaining some measure of childishness, I trust you won't hold that against me. Enthusiasm. That is all it is, Mr. Dorosh. I know you can slingshot back and forth between youthful vigor and excitement and your current state. Therefore, I hope your next postings are somewhat more constructive. I'm not really surprised that you did not get the point. I'm guessing you feel it's beneath you. Thanks, Gpig

Close Combat almost always got it right, Sergei. Those little squads of men "Usually" positioned in a way that made sense. When they did get it wrong, it was a BIG pain in the ass. Maybe that's why we all hated that part of it so much. Because when your little soldiers get it wrong, they tended to die right quick. But by saying that in CC2 "It never worked," well that's just a plain exaggeration. I understand your worries, however. It would be just as painfull in CM to watch your squad assault a position as part of a carefully laid attack. Then you'd pull your hair out as the squad lines itself up on the wrong side of a building with three guys left out in the alley - blowing your plan all to hell. (and getting themselves killed off.) I believe it will work. But there will be chanllenges for BF to work out, all right. CC2 sure was fun. A lot of the players here have played it. Including Steve, I think. So you're safe, CSO_Talorgan. Heh heh. I think. Gpig

Hee hee. Cool, Bill. Looks like I need a few more poses in there . . . I like your ideas, Steve McClaire. And I'd love to see CMx come to pass as you describe it (as far as 1:1 rep of squads go's.) But I'm very curious as to wether BF will implement that kind of detail for squad behaviour. I mean, I wonder if it's just going to be a squad with a central point (like it is now), just with 1:1 modelling and representation for a whole squad. Well, let's hope it comes to pass as you envision it. Later, Gpig

My pleasure. I myself am still not sold on the idea that we even need wounded lying around. It doesn't really add to the overall game. They'll just be sitting/lying around. (Taking up processing power.) Now seeing KIA's lying around I think would add to the game. No gore or anything. Just a motionless body. No animation needed. But you can't really have just KIA's and no WIA's. (I mean you could, but it wouldn't feel as complete to me. I mean, if you have one, why not the other. I agree with you, YankeeDog. Maybe we could just have 3 or 4 generic poses for "casualties." They wouldn't be animated, but they would represent KIA and WIA. Then they could just lie there or whatever. These are those worms outta the can, we're talking about. KIA's visible on the battlefield? WIA's visible on the battlefield? (controlled by the A.I.?) All casualites just vanish? (Wounded and/or Killed in Action.) Or casualties represented by prone bodies. WIA and KIA. It'd be cool, but would it distract from the game? I'm very interested how Battlefront will resolve these issues. My gut tells me they'll make casualties part of the "background." Like it is now in CM. Thereby allowing the player to concentrate on the tactics/simulation of combat. Thanks for posting those doodles, tom. [ January 21, 2005, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Gpig ]

Thanks guys. It's fun to doodle out ideas. The animation possibilites really make me drool. I was trying to work out a run cycle of a soldier. We've all seen WWII footage of troopers dashing, doubled over, for the nearest cover. And imagine watching as one man in your squad gets up from a prone position and lobs a grenade. Then htis the dirt, flat on his stomach. Or zoom in behind your hidden Shrek team as they load their last rocket. The Sherman tank rolling toward them. As far as the squad of men behind the wall . . . I was just trying to picture the scene where a squad of 12 U.S. troopers fill up a yard. It's tough to cram 'em all in there. But it will sure look cool "in-game." I'm dazzled by the tech know-how required to get all them little models to line up correctly. I can animate/move a 3-D model, but it only does so because I direct it to. Getting 12 individual units (all part of a single unit/squad) to work together, follow SOP's, fire and return fire - is the real trick. You guys at BFC will really have a feather for your cap once you've added this candy. Seeing men fall wounded would be nice for the realism. Currently, the game doesn't handle wounded. Well, it lumps them together with the dead. They just vanish from the squad. Would one of the worms out of the can become the treatment of wounded? Or will CMx handle casualties the same way as CM? (Where casualites just vanish.) I feel that would still be perfectly fine for the game scope. As the game/simulation is about combat/tactics and not about the myriad activities surrounding the action. But, I for one can imagine the heartache as I watch a lone soldier dragging himself back across no-mans land. Towards friendly troops. He's too wounded to walk, so the Enemy A.I. won't shoot him. (he's no threat.) It's still too dangerous to go out in the street to help him. (and he's under control of the TacA.I. anyway), so you just have to watch him crawl towards his lines. Hoping all the way that he makes it. Can you picture that? It would give you an emotional response, no doubt. I'm sure game designers (like movie makers) LOVE to have their products produce emotional responses. 1:1 representation/modelling is the way to go alright. I don't think anybody could hack more than 3 turns of 1:1 control of more than a platoon's worth of men. (At least, I'd soon grow tired of it.) I'm really looking forward to it all. Thanks for sharing, Steve, and all you guys at Battlefront. Gpig

Hey all. I would just LOVE to see 1:1 reprsentation in CMx. I understand that it opens up a BIG can of worms, however. Things like formations. How a squad/team fills a space/room. Foxholes. How a squad moves from point A to B. (In one big group? Or in single file?) All sorts of things have to be addressed once you depict 12 (+/-) little men. But it will look SO sweet to have full squads running around on the map. Men dashing across roads. Climbing out of burning wrecks. Crawling through the grass. I've done up a couple of sketches just to tinker around. aka_tom_w is going to post them for me here, in this thread. Just for fun. (I'm just visualizing out loud, here.) Boy oh boy, I can't wait. I think when CMx comes out, I'm going to buy two of them. Thanks, Gpig P.S. Look for aka_tom_w's post later today.

Wasn't there a btn/coy of men that saved the Americans in Korea (from the Chinese)? The Frozen Chosin Res.? Some guys travelled through the blizzard and kept a pass open? Or did they OPEN the pass? Can't remember. Saved the Division (or more) of encircled troops. Gpig

Originally posted by Wicky: Heh. Nope. They've got more than enough talent to go around, I'd guess. :-D Cars is looking GREAT, thank you very much! I'm not expecting Pixar-level effects/animation for CMx2, as Finding Nemo takes up 12 Tetrabytes of disk space on the disk farm. That might make it difficult for your average gamer to run a SUPER animated CMx2 from home. Heh heh. Gpig

Thanks, fella's. I'll have to give 'em a try, once they arrive! Gpig

Heh. Did a search. (Funny, that.) Found a CMBO battle done by Warmonger called "Currie's VC." (Sounds about right.) I don't remember playing this one is CMBO. Anyone else remember? Would it be a good one to convert into CMAK? Thanks, Gpig.

Hi I received the history of the SAR, for Xmas. (Excellent book! I noticed that Mr. Dorosh and Andreas thought so, as well.) There are MANY fine battles talked about in said tome. Have any been recreated for CMAK? I seem to recall a Byte Battle for CMBO called "Trun," I think. But I'm thinking more about St. Lambert battles. Germans escaping the pocket through Victoria Cross winner Currie's positions. Anyone recommend a SAR battle? (I may have to make some myself, now that I've got the info . . .) Thanks, Gpig

Hi Just got the SAR history, for Xmas. (Excellent book!) There are MANY fine battles talked about in said tome. Have any been recreated for CMAK? I seem to recall a Byte Battle for CMBO called "Trun," I think. But I'm thinking more about St. Lambert battles. Germans escaping the pocket through Victoria Cross winner Currie's positions. Anyone recommend a SAR battle? (I may have to make some myself, now that I've got the info . . .) Thanks, Gpig Edit: Oops, wrong forum. Heh. [ January 04, 2005, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Gpig ]