Kingfish

Looking for info on the 1st Canadian armored brigade, specifically which regiment(s) supported the British 4th infantry division during the drive on Florence in mid-July '44. To date my my main source of research material is After the battle magazine issue 129, but the info is somewhat confusing. For instance, it states that the Canadians were in support of 4th ID when the latter captured Montevarchi on July 18th. However, a couple of paragraphs later it goes on to say that the same brigade was under the control of 8th Indian division on July 20th, when they were advancing on Empoli and Montelupo, a good 40 kilometers to the west. Was the 1st CAB broken up and distributed amongst the various divisions in Brit X / XIII Corp, or did it actually side step across the front in those 2 days? Thanks in advance

OK, it's up and ready for testing at the Proving Grounds. Large map / 8500 points / 55 turns variable. British 5th Grenadier Guards, reinforced with tanks of the Pretoria Regiment and artillery support from 6th S. African Armored Div and 1st A.G.R.A. It is designed for solo play against the Axis A.I., no German briefing is provided. Stick to scenario default, adjust the computer's experience bonus per your level of play. This is the view from the belltower of the Abbey atop Mont Domini. A kilometer and a half away is Grenadier ridge, with a secondary peak off to the right. As you can see the terrain in between consists of gently rolling hills, vineyards and wheatfields. It would be a pleasant afternoon stroll if not for the storm of fire the Germans would hurl at you the moment you crest the first hill, but hey, life sucks. The opposite view. Grenadier Ridge is slight lower than the summit of Mont Domini. The view from atop the secondary peak. The terrain to the left gently slopes downhill but is heavily wooded, making it unsuitable for vehicles. A final long-range view from the west. Mont Domini, which you can just make out at upper right, is at 892 meters the highest point within the Greve River valley. From the summit there is only one road that takes you down to the valley floor, which eventually leads to route 222 and on to Florence. That road is the one in the center of the pic. To the left you can see the commanding heights of Grenadier Ridge. Any advance coming down that road will be in the crosshairs of the Germans on that ridge.

You don't see the German cross because in the LH photo the toolbox is covering it up. Something else I noticed that is interesting. Take a good look at the LH damage. Whatever hit the track guard did so with such force that it broke it in half, but also buckled it in a downward angle. Anyone here thinks that was caused by an arty shell? Perhaps a one-in-a-million shot cracked the guard down and jammed the treads, causing the crew to bail.

It appears the tank was used for target practice after it was knocked out. Take a look at the third slide in the series where the penentrations are outlined in small boxes. Take note of the one on the right, just below the supposedly dead crewman's head, and the one in the middle. Now scroll forward to the slide showing the fire between the 4th & 5th road wheels. Still shows up clearly there. Now go forward one more slide. The middle pen is not there, and the tool box shows no sign of damage, even though the RH pen is right behind it. Edit: something else I just noticed. Take a look at the 4th road wheel in the first slides and then the same wheel in the side by side comparison shots.

Engineers drive trains, while Pioneers drive covered wagons.

I thought it was more a consequence of not having a low-profile engine with sufficient power output available? [/QB]</font>

A consequence of having to transport tens of thousands of them across whole oceans.

Yarpies? Thats a good one. Yes, they were both in Brit XIII Corp (or is it Corps...where's Dorosh?) during the end of July / August '44. In fact, they were side by side in a race for the first to enter the city. AGRAs had 5.5" and up, right?

Got 7 total, with the last being the TO&E for the 22nd. Great stuff, especially the Brit OH doc. I was surprised to read that the actual attack went in around 10pm. BTW, on a totally unrelated matter, would you happen to know which AGRA, if any, supported the Kiwis in their drive on Florence? I'm guessing that whatever army level tubes supported the Kiwis also were available to the South Africans, whom held the line to the east. [ January 28, 2007, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Kingfish ]

But was this method employed during combat within the confines of a CM-sized map?

You can only embark the spotters equipped with a radio.

E-mail me direct. I have another non-related question.

June 12th to be exact. Do you know when they switched from the Priests to 25-pdrs? Also, do you know which arty regiments participated in the battle for Breville on that date? This site suggests 5 regiments were involved.

Looking for TO&E info on the 22nd independent parachute company, specifically at squad level. Was it organized like the other para formations of 6th AB? Did it include any PIAT or 2" mortars in its makeup? Also, did the 53rd airlanding light regiment only have 75mm howitzers or larger calibur guns as well?

Three main reasons, I think. First, in the initial stages of the invasion 21AG had almost all the armoured divisions (and tank brigades) in the Allied line-up. Second, knocking off the "hinge" at Caen was for a long time seen as the Allied main effort. Third, the Brits are simply closer to where a lot of the German armour reinforcements are coming from, and given the difficulties of mobility the Germans had, it might be not so easy to drive over and thump the Americans even if you want to. As an example of this, consider how German armour intended to go and nip off the Cobra breakout was sucked into the battle of Periers ridge in the final stages of Operation Bluecoat. [/QB]

Plus a dozen or so Tiger IIs in 503rd s.Pz Abt.

But the crew of the 8-man weapon are every bit as busy, if not more, as the 4-man weapon. Otherwise why would the army feel it necessary to crew these weapons with 8 men? Certainly not to ensure every man gets a 30-minute lunch break.

It is significant but takes a turn or two to develop. IOW, the delay accumulates over time. At the beginning of the turn they all fire in unison, but as the turn progresses the full strength gun begins to pull away, so by the time the turn ends he is a full shot ahead of the others. Correct, the effect is more pronounced with the larger weapons.

You can run a quick test to confirm. Purchase 3 guns and make them all equal in calibur and experience level, but have one at full strength, another at 80% and the last at 60%. Give them area fire orders and watch as they all start off firing in unison, but over time the fulls strength unit starts to pull away.

No effect on unit experience, only on spotting, firing and reaction times.

But the 3-D model does not exist in a vacuum. Each one has built-in data, such as armor protection and sillouette, which gives it its unique characteristics. That data is influenced to a certain degree by how the model is designed. The two are certainly distinct aspects of the game, but they are tied to each other. It is irrelevant if you are thinking of only playing against the AI, but not so as soon as you try to play against someone else. If that person's 3-D models differs in anyway the game is hosed, since it requires the exact same data for it to calculate the outcome from each engagement. Something similar to this came up when the designers were putting the finishing touches on the TCP/IP feature for CMBO. IIRC, they discovered a problem that was related to the differences in each players computer. Because no two PC (or Mac) are alike each calculated each engagement differently, and thus produced different movies. One guy would watch his opponent's tank get popped, while his opponent watched his own tank survive the turn. The same thing could happen if you have 5-6 different version of the same tank, each slightly different in some aspect, floating around the CM community. Imagine the chaos of trying to sqaure away with your pbem opponent what mods you have for each vehicle, who designed it, and how recent is the version.

But what is a non-working/low quality mod, and who decides? Say I want to create a 3-D model of the French R35, and my reference data shows the upper hull is angled 35 degrees from vertical. I submit this and everyone is happy. Along comes Joe and he submits the same tank only his has a 30 degree slope. Both mods are excellent quality and both work inside the game engine, yet because of the difference in armor slope each treats the opposing enemy's pen factors differently. How do you address this? Don't get me wrong, I too would love to see some early war stuff, especially Norway, but unless you have a centralized control of the 3-D models you are opening up Pandora's box.

So how would you address the problem of 3 dozen different modders submitting 3 dozen different versions of the Char B1?

Do you mean allow third parties to create 3-D models?

Already been done, although it is a CMBO scenario.