Red Dog

For those who don't know, that was the parachute and glider drop made by the SS 500th para battalion to capture Tito (Yugoslavian partisan leader) in May 1944. Before I go through all the trouble of working on this, has anyone already done this battle? If not, anyone know of a good source of maps for Drvar and the surrounding area? I've tried searching, but all I can find are political maps. I think this will make for a very challenging battle.

For those who don't know, that was the parachute and glider drop by the SS 500th para battalion to capture Tito (Yugoslavian partisan leader). Before I go through all the trouble of working on this, has anyone already done this battle? If not, anyone know of a good source of maps for Drvar and the surrounding area? I've tried searching, but all I can find are political maps.

Going to have to dig out my books this weekend and reread up on this operation... Weren't the SS Para Bn and the Brandenburgers dropped in under the command of Otto Skorzeny?

That's why they dropped at night. In addition, the weather was pretty bad as well. These factors combined with the inexperienced pilots were a major factor in the failure of the operation. Who knows how the Battle of the Bulge would have turned out if the entire force had dropped near the rally point and secured the crossroads...

I'm not sure if Yugoslavia is considered to be part of the eastern front, but you can certainly recreate the Drvar Campaign with CMBB. As for other AFVs or vehicles in general, it would all depend on what other units were nearby and what they could be assigned from the Corp or Army HQ that they were attached to.

I think you'll find that the actual drop was substantially less grandiose than two divs + an independant bn + some brandenburgers. Did the Germans ever have the capability to lift 2+ divs at once? Regards JonS </font>

That's a very comon misconception... July 12, 1943 1st Para Division parachuted into the Catania sector of Sicily. Sept 1943 Parachute operation by 4th Battalion of the Assault Regiment to take out the headquarters of the Italian Army in Monte Rotondo. Sept 1943 Para Training Battalion made a glider assault to release Mussolini. Sept 1943 2nd Battalion made a parachute drop to capture the island of Elba. Nov 1943 Parachute opertaion by 1st Battalion, 2nd Para Regiment to capture the island of Leros. May 1944 SS 500th Para Battalion made a combined parachute and glider drop to capture Marshal Tito at Drvar in Yugoslavia. Dec 1944 3rd and 5th Para Divisions along with the SS 500th Para Battalion and elements of The Brandenburg Regiment made a parachute drop durring the Ardennes Offensive, but failed to cut the Eupen-Malmedy road. Nothing on the grand scale of Krete certainly, but they weren't exactly stuck in the mud for the rest of the war either...

MG 34 or MG 42. A good rule of thumb would be to think of wether or not it could be dropped by parachute or glider, and how easily could it be moved once on the ground by manpower alone. They were usually equipped with the best that was available that they could carry.

Did they actually have any organic tank support (or any other vehicle for that matter) at all? I'd always assumed any tank support would have been assigned from other units.

Panzerfaust, Panzerschreck, Pueppchen, 81mm Mortar (had a shorter barrel than the standard version), 105mm Nebelwerfer, 12cm Granatenwerfer 42, Pz B 41 (the gunshield was removed to save weight and it was fitted on a light alloy cradle with ballon tires) Pak36/37 75mm LG 40 10.5cm LG 40 A typical Fallschirmjäger division would include an Artillery Regiment, an Anti-Tank Battalion, a Signals Battalion, a Medical Battalion, and an Engineer Battalion. There was also an SS Fallschirmjäger Battalion (which started off as a penal unit). If you're looking for information on any particular unit I can try to look it up for you. [ August 10, 2004, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Red Dog ]

I have not seen any mods for the Raketenwerfer or either of the recoilless guns. So they would get my vote for a needed mod. Come on guys, those poor FJs need some nice pretty looking weapons too...

I believe this is also dependant on the experience level of the unit and visibility. I recall a night battle in a village with my conscript partisans were there was so much "friendly fire" that the Germans could have just sat outside the town and not fired a shot and they still would have won... Although realistic, it was quite frustrating to watch as my Maxim HMG opened up on one of my own platoons as they tried to sneak across a street. :mad: :eek:

You obviously have not met my Russian tank crews... in a recent QB against my father over TCP/IP I had a platoon of T-34/85s all in hull down positions which opened fire at 800m on two of his Panthers as they crossed an open field... By the end of the second turn of firing, I had three of my tanks knocked out, one with gun damage, and one retreating after a partial penetration. :eek: I had only scored a single hit on one of his Panthers, which did no damage... :confused: my crews were regular and one vet in case you were wondering...

I use these quite often when I take fallschirmjaegers in QBs. I just don't feel right giving them the standard AT guns (or any vehicle support for that matter). So I limit myself to panzerschrecks, Pz B 41 (28mm heavy AT rifle in the game), and of course the recoilless guns. So especially in a late war game, I need that 10.5cm LG 40 to take out any tanks. It's great against infantry too... Just wish it wasn't so easy to spot... Luckily I've had pretty good luck with first shot kills with it though. :cool:

So nobody knows anything about this?

If I recall correctly, bunkers automatically get the boresighted bonus even without a TRP. Since it is a fixed fortification, and it's probably been there long enough for the gun crew to have marked off the range to various pieces of terrain.

I'm trying to make up a list of all of the drops made by the Fallschirmjaegers on the eastern front. Here's what I have so far... Nov '43, 2nd Division airlanded in Kirovgrad. May '44, SS 500th Para Battalion made a glider and parachute drop to capture Marshal Tito, at Dravar in Yugoslavia. Is this it? Anyone know of any others?

Never fear, the Germans have one as well. The Sdkfz 251/21, which carries three 15mm MG151/15 machine guns and an MG34 (or was it MG42?). Although the in game model isn't nearly as cool as the M17's... I hope they plan on redoing the model for this one. Right now the game just uses the regular sdfkz 251 model. Now why can't I get the image to display? :confused: Go to http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/3620/sdkfz251-21.jpg to see it for yourself. [ December 13, 2002, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: Red Dog ]

Has anyone converted (or started to) the map from Red Barriocades to CMBB? Before I take the plunge and start working on it I figured I better make sure someone else hasn't already done it.

I seem to recall reading a story somewhere about a single KV-1 sitting on a bridge which held up a whole German battalion for 2-3 days... Haven't encounted one in game yet, and I'm not looking forward to it.

Just wanted to point out that combat shotguns are often equiped with a duck-bill choke, which gives the pellet spread a much more horizontal pattern. Taking this into concideration, hitting multiple man-sized target's becomes much more likely. But 14 is still a bit unbelievable... I used to own a Mossberg 500 with a duck-bill choke and a bayonet on it (x-girlfriend's father was a gunsmith and he fixed it up for me as a Xmas gift). Unfortunately, I was realy desperate for money a few years back and had to sell it. It was the perfect home defense gun...

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Chad Harrison: looks like the world will never know which one represents it better. ill go back to counting the licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop so atleast one mystery will be solved.<hr></blockquote> 527, Although I suppose tongue size and pressure would effect this number some... [ 12-02-2001: Message edited by: Red Dog ]</p>

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Scipio: That's the reason why the 3.7AA is such a deadly tankkiller, while it was in reality AFAIK never used as AT weapon. Possibly if nothing else was available, and I assume it wasn't very successfull.<hr></blockquote> Actually, wasn't the 3.7cm AA gun also mounted on later models of the Stuka specifically for killing tanks... If it is indeed the same weapon, it was quite effective in this roll. Granted these would be hits through the much thinner top armor, but a penetrating hit is still a penetrating hit and it does show that the little 3.7cm could easily knock out tanks.

They're also great for driving around your company commander so he can rally that platoon that just broke and ran when their platoon HQ was eliminated.

Did you try setting it up so that the Allies must exit the map on the west edge for points? That may do it.