Dittohead

As I said in my other thread it is totally unrealistic for certain wheeled AC to just drive around HMG-42's and not be shot at because as the game is currently modeled, there is no way to knock them out with MG fire. Gee hans look - an M-8 is killing everything. Hold your fire those tires look pretty tough.

From my testing it seems that some wheeled armored cars can neither be knocked out or even immobilized by concentrated MG fire. Range for testing was 50-80m. My first test pitted a humbar, M-8, Diamler and M-20 vs 18 elite HMG-42. The crew quickley abandoned the M-20. But all other AC's just laughed off the MG fire. Then after 10 seconds or so all MG's stop firing since they assume they can't penetrate the armor. On shadowsfolly they list the side armor of the M-8 at 9mm where CM has 10mm? Then second test pitted a Puma, 234/1 and 234/3 vs 6-M1919 and 6-M1917. The M1919's got a kill vs the 234/3 and Puma. Probably from the 8mm @30 deg side armor, and would continue shooting sproadically at the 234/1. It would seem that weak point penetrations, lucky shots, critical hits, tires shot to pieces, exposed drive train or steering linkage damage, ricochets through drivers vision slots, gun damage, shots thru engine doors are virtually impossible to achieve against certain AC's with MG fire. With the Allies fairing much better than the Germans. This appears to be unrealistic. These uber cars must be stopped. Just wondering if anybody else has noticed the same thing or maybe I need to do more testing. Thanks and BTS please fix or do somefink. Tony [This message has been edited by Dittohead (edited 01-09-2001).]

Use the Attacker -10% setting, this helps give the attacker a smaller more manageable advantage. This works esp. well when doing an attack, since the objective flags are deeper in your defensive area.

This must have been one of Fionn's last posts. Though I'm too lazy to look it up. But if Russian tanks do have some type of C&C restictions then the Cmd Tank should be easily recognizable, so it can be killed first. bwhhhaaaaa

In my Military Book club info was a flyer from www.winson.co.uk .They manufacture very high quality and very expensive RR Engine models. They are producing an all metal 1/8th scale Tiger I for the serious model builder. The tank comes in 9 ready to assemble kits and weighs in at 156 lbs They offer electric or aero motors.

I doubt very seriously you could find any examples of M-8's tearing around taking on tanks and what not. Most M-8 cmdrs would not risk their vehicle or men on suicide type missions. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>and the M8 was designed for exactly the same mission(although more normally used to screen against recon and flanking forces). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What? Designed for the same mission as the M18 The only problem I see is that once the M-8 buttons up it is invulnerable to small arms and MG fire, unless the small arms or MG have a height advantage or get close enough for grenades. Tony

Full Metal Bikini

The problem with the M-8 is I think they are too impervious to small arms and MG fire. It should be alot easier to shoot the rubber off the tires or get a weak pt penetration. I've done tests with concetrated MG-42 fire against them with nary a scratch on the M-8. You would think after several 100 rds from an 3-4 MG-42's you might be able to immobilize the damn thing. Plus the MG-42 wont fire against the M-8 for very long unless they are above it. Since the MG-42 technically does not have a chance to penetrate it.

mercy buckets.

Sounds good to me.

Yes, had it happen to me last night. I had an ostwind that wanted to charge into allied lines to get away from the art fire. Every turn I plotted it to reverse then it would plot fast move back into allied held area.

Yes, Elite crews do have a big advantage in getting weak point kills and in rate of fire. I tried with regular crews but gave up after a few turns. However, this does help to establish that it is possible to get a ricochet kill on the panther with a 37mm out to 740m or so.

Noticed the same thing, must be caused by the weak European Building codes.

The three classics Fire and Movement Moves Strategy and Tactics are available from www.decisiongames.com Tony

I just did some more testing on the weak pt kills on Panthers with the 37mm. I found that at about 720m weak pt front turret kills were quite common. The max distance of a kill was about 740m, but it took a few more shots. I used elite crews.

What type of sherman 75mm or 76mm. The 76's have a small chance to kill against the front hull or he might have tunsten to use.

Just wondering if there is some distance where the 37mm shell will break up instead of ricocheting down through the weaker top armor.

Maybe the distance for ambush markers can be increased for tanks, and enlarging the ambush area might work for sector fire.

Sounds like a 76 Jumbo. But I think most of your tank problems start at the top.

Let see, I think BTS will win.

Bring out your dead. Bring out your dead. But I'm not dead yet.

But were all jumbo's created equally? Would some of the field mods fair much worse than the official versions? Should there be two different armor versions modeled in the game. Maybe at different costs.

From the previous thread the numbers Jentz used were in question. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>For comparison: Penetration at 30 degrees when using Pzgr.39: ______CM_____Jentz_____ range 100m 177mm 202mm 500m 165mm 185mm 1000m 151mm 165mm 2000m 121mm 132mm<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> So your numbers for 30 deg match what CM models, not what Jentz used.

How big of squad did you have, was the bldg damaged, were they in command, what type of bldg, light or heavy, was there better cover nearby.

Try a TRP on the bridge, I think you can lock it into place in the editor. I'm at work so I can't say for sure