Oddball_E8
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Posts posted by Oddball_E8
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Assume for a moment that it was easy to add to code and BFC released it in the next patch. In your next PBEM game your American force opponent scrounged every single German MG that he could and soon you were facing Ami platoons with Garands backed up by German MGs. How quickly do you think you would be asking they "fix sumfink" as it was an unfair and ahistorical practice? Instead of it being a solution to a rare need it suddenly became common practice all the time.
wouldnt really happen if they modeled it like i said... and they would of course only pick up whatever was infront of them and not scrounge for "the good stuff" in any way... its for pure self preservation.
everybody keeps using the "but then everyone would run with MG42s" card, but that ignores the fact that i keep saying it should only be used in dire cirkumstances..
so please stop using that as an argument.
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actually, id kinda like an autosave feature too since you sometimes press done before youve issued all commands...
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It doesn't model small arms blue-on-blue casualties, only fifty-cal and larger, which covers all HE. There's an exception for the unit's own grenades. It does model suppression from friendly small arms.
It won't allow you or the AI to target your own units (only the area near them).
then why would you "have" to implement blue on blue fire from temporary use of enemy weapons?
if one isnt implemented then the other shouldnt.
and for the record, you can get blue on blue fire only if you use fiftycal shooting past your own troops, they dont sporadically open fire on their own troops witch is what "needed" to be implemented for this to work according to the post by normal dude.
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Yes it does (well, not purely random).
are you telling me that the TacAI randomly starts shooting at friendlies?
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i read somewhere that .brz files are basically like .zip files but without the compression (ie. just there for storage and ease-of-use)
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I'll bet I could find pictures of German/Allied troops in or standing near captured enemy fighters. Shall we also assume that they had flown them in combat often as well?
its a well known fact that germans used captured enemy weapons on a systematic basis so (unfortunately) that video is a completely moote point.
as is your answer to it :/
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1. How friendly TacAI should react to the sounds of enemy weapons in the hands of friendly troops.
2. The AI surrounding Buddy Aid would have to be opened up and modified to allow Buddy Aid to enemy troops, since that is how troops in CM pick up weapons. Of course, it would have to do all the above checks first before it starts, or else troops randomly doing Buddy Aid on enemy troops opens up a whole host of different issues.
3. The AI would have to be programmed to do the above checks.
4. The AI then has to be programmed to stop using the enemy weapons when appropriate.
5. UI changes would have to be made for ammo, since they would be picking up foreign ammo.
6. Then ALL of this has to debugged/tested.
I'd have stopped at number 1 personally. It's not worth the effort for a solution in search of a problem.
1: they shouldnt... or should we also factor in the random chance of blue on blue fire just because it did happen? because the game currently does not.
2: doesnt sound THAT difficult
3: again, same as above (and actually id say it was part of 2 and not a separate point)
4: still part of point 2
5: not really necessary since the ui ammo part is text (as i remember anyway) and even if it is an icon, that icon is already present since you can play both sides in this game.
6: as would EVERY other little change to anything in the game so dont add that as a point for not making a change, since we wouldnt have any changes in the game then.
but nice try stretching it out over 6 points, personally id go for 10 points while were at it, but i guess im just an overachiever
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apparantly bofors has developed a version of their rocketlauncher that is safe to use from inside buildings..
cant find the youtube clip right now, but it just shows that its taken this long for that to be developed :/
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Actually i think the majority of CM:SF players were realtime players and didnt use pbem like us "oldies" do.
but of course im just pulling that speculation out of my bee-hind
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I think the only situation where it would be considered "normal" to pick up and use enemy small arms is if you're an unarmed individual in enemy territory with no or very few friendlies around to help protect you. That's outside the scope of this game.
Its happened to me twice already... but i guess im just playing outside the scope of this game then.
(and no, they werent individuals, but they were small groups of soldiers in enemy terretory with no friendlies around and no ammo left)
That isn't the issue, the issue is that the "fix" will cause more problems than it solves. For a problem that doesn't really exist.how do you know it will cause problems? dont assume things that you dont know. And the problem does exist.
Like i said, ive had it happen to me twice already, once on the band of borthers mission, and once in a quick battle where the enemy attacked on a flank i wasnt expecting them to attack so the small force i had there quickly ran out of ammo with dead germans nearby. They could have easily picked up those guns to defend themselves from the enemy, but instead they just sat there and died...
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Well, maybe 'it would be nice', but it's allllll coding... and spending much time on 'outlier' situations like that seems pretty low on the priority list.
Yeah but since theres already a function like this in the game (scrounging from friendlies) its not a whole new thing... its just a bit of additional coding...
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And if they do pick up and fire enemy weapons, be prepared for "Blue on Blue" right back at you as other friendly soldiers hear what they think is an enemy weapon and open fire on it. That killed more than one WW2 GI.
im pretty sure having no ammo and being fired upon by enemies can have that effect as well... (death that is... not blue on blue)
like i said, its not about GI's picking up MG42's and running around with them all the time... its about soldiers in dire need of a weapon picking up whatevers at their feet and firing back to survive.
people seem to be blowing this slightly out of proportion and seem to think i want troops to pick up all enemy guns they see and carry them around.
like i said earlier, for extreme situations only... not a regular thing.
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Looks like a cool idea
have you tried it with regular infantry weapons? (like hmg and such, i mean)
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It's the usual, "lets not make the unusual a common thing". Would soldiers under these circumstances grab a German weapon? Probably yes. But the circumstances themselves are pretty rare. Soldiers with no ammo and supporting troops tend not to press the attack. Sure it did happen. Paratroops would be very likely candidates to find themselves in a situation like this.
But to allow the scrounging of enemy weapons would be over compensating by far because before very long every 98k, Mp40 and MG42 encountered will be picked up by a GI and carried around. And that just did not happen. Not even remotely close.
And all that to solve a problem that only comes up in outlier situations?
The cure is worse then the disease.
I dont see that happening if you set it up so it can only happen within certain paramaters:
1: under fire or in direct line of sight of enemy troops
2: completely out of ammo (not even 2 shots left)
3: no other friendly troops in line of sight to get ammo from. (could be troops, but using wrong ammo)
4: give priority to personal weapon, so if later on the unit comes in contact with someone carrying the appropriate ammo (dead or alive and willing to share) they would switch back to primary weapon.
if you set it up that way, it would be exactly what it was in real life: a very rare occation...
how often do you have troops that are out of ammo, nowhere near anyone that can share ammo and under fire?
very rarely.
but when it DOES happen, you will be sitting there screaming at them to pick up those mausers lying at their feet
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i still remember when i lost my panzer 4 to a jeep with an M2HB in old CM
playing hotseat with my friend i had spent most of my points on that one tank, and he just wiped it out with a few disastrous bursts from behind
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That's the divergence in opinion, right there. BFC emphasise that troops were trained not to touch any enemy eqipment that they find, since it may well be booby-trapped. There is also the fact that in limited visibility, troops would fire in the direction of weapons fire that sounded like the distinctive enemy weapons. So troops didn't do it. That's BFC's take on it.
The flaw, really, is that the SMG toters even bother opening up at ranges further than about 50m. The odd "short controlled burst" just so the other guy knows there's some full-auto hurt out there, yeah, but actually hitting anything over that range with an MP40 or American .45ACP weapon in battlefield conditions? Not verra likely.
possible, but on the other hand, if you just mowed the guys down yourself, and ran out of ammo with enemies shooting at you, would you really just sit there and twiddle your thumbs?
like i said, id like it included, but only in the most dire situations... ie. when youre completely out of ammo, no friendlies around to share ammo with and enemies firing upon you.
so no auto-scrounging of enemies each time you run past them, only if youre completely dry and have been so for a while.
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So i just played the "take out the 88 guns from band of brothers" scenario (cant remember its name) and every soldier i had that was equipped with a tommygun ran out of ammo within miniutes of enemy contact.
In fact, my main assault team (2 tommyguns, and one dead garand guy) ran out of ammo and had to just hide somewhere since they didnt scrounge any ammo or weapons off the dead germans.
in my opinion this is a poor design move from BF, since it was somewhat common for soldiers that ran out of ammo and had no friendlies around to scrounge from, to pick up an enemies weapon if need be...
we already have the scrounging mechanic in the game, why cant we expand that to enemy weapons when in dire need?
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could it be possible that those units werent in the village when you bombarded it and just moved in afterwards?
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Is it just me or are the tank movement sounds very very low?
theyre not low in their basic wav-form so it must be the game engine lowering them artificially somehow...
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you are welcome to do so... i wont be doing much to the mod in the near future (except maby increase the volume of the tank movement sounds)
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Yes, i too would be very interested in wether or not this works on a mac.
Xian: have you tried compiling my mod into a .brz file using the mod tools?
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well it seems there were far fewer PzIII and PzII at normandy than i was lead to believe...
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I was just browsing through the german tanks available and it struck me that there were no panzer 3 or panzer 2 versions available at all...
ive heard of pz3 and pz2 being used around the battles of normandy... ive even heard of captured french tanks being used.
but all i see on the german side are pz4, pz5 and pz6 (and a marder 3)
whats with the lack of panzer models?
did they just not have time to model them in the game?
will they be added later?
Weapon and ammo scrounging.
in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy
Posted
there would be no self implemented rules of behaviour since you simply COULDNT get your troops to pick up enemy weapons unless you went to extraordinary (and difficult) lenghts to do so (ie. getting a lone squad into a position where they were far far away from friendlies, ontop of a dead enemy squad (presumably with an MG42 available) and fired away all your ammo and THEN somehow managed to get the enemy to start firing upon you without you dying in the process, and even then you would have to hope they actually picked up the MG and not a mauser). You make it sound as if i want them to simply include scrounging for enemy weapons and leave us to police when and how its done. But im actually asking for coded limits to when it can happen. And you would know that if you actually read the post instead of rushing down to the reply box to answer with a sarcastic reply.
and to answer your second section:
would it really work; Most likely yes, since scrounging works currently
what are the downsides; Lets see, currently none that i can see (and the "they'll all use MG42s" argument doesnt work, i just told you why above), unless you actually count not having forced blue on blue possibility because of the use of enemy weapons as a downside.
what would it take to ameliorate those downsides; well, if you absolutely count not having blue on blue because of it as a downside, then implementing a possible blue on blue coding then. (witch really isnt needed, since the only time the scrounging of enemy weapons would happen in the game is when no friendlies are around, and besides, the TacAI doesnt automatically fire on soundcontacts as it is, only AFTER a confirmed sighting.)
just exactly how much coding for these events do we expect of Charles and company; Not that much to be honest. Scrounging is already implemented, witch would be the bulk of the coding, this just expands on that coding to expand on the possible targets (ie, from friendly guns to enemy guns) and implement a couple of conditions for it to activate. BUT of course none of us know how much coding would actually be needed, only charles and company knows that.
and most importantly - what are we willing to give up to have said feature;
Do we have to give up anything? are we giving up something each time we add something to the game? Does including french tanks mean we get no british expansion? does including a panzer 3 into the game mean we have to lose something else? This reasoning is flawed in my opinion since you dont have to remove something from the "to do" list just because you added a new thing. The question is more "when", and of course this wouldnt exactly be priority one.