JonS

You do realise we're arguing the same side here?
A lot of traditional systems seem broken (or wounded, or at least a bit lame due to a gammy knee) right now; navy, fast air, attack aviation, infantry, armour, engineers, logistics, and yes artillery. That's due to a bunch of things; prolific atgms, prolific pgms, lagging mil industrial capability and production, prolific isr, and yes drones.
The way through this dark wood isn't going to be ditching everything and betting the farm on the whirrwhirr.
We *know* that artillery is an important part of the combined arms team. We *know* that artillery is crucial to enabling go-forward offensive maneauvre. It isnt working right now, but as always it'll evolve and indirect fires will resume their place in the go-forward team.

You do realise we're arguing the same side here?
A lot of traditional systems seem broken (or wounded, or at least a bit lame due to a gammy knee) right now; navy, fast air, attack aviation, infantry, armour, engineers, logistics, and yes artillery. That's due to a bunch of things; prolific atgms, prolific pgms, lagging mil industrial capability and production, prolific isr, and yes drones.
The way through this dark wood isn't going to be ditching everything and betting the farm on the whirrwhirr.
We *know* that artillery is an important part of the combined arms team. We *know* that artillery is crucial to enabling go-forward offensive maneauvre. It isnt working right now, but as always it'll evolve and indirect fires will resume their place in the go-forward team.

Drones are part of a system - the whirrwhirr flying thing is just the end point of that system. The system can be attacked anywhere along its chain, and different points in the chain will need different combinations of things to effect an attack.
At the moment everyone seems exclusively focussed on knocking down the whirrwhirr. Thats part of it, but so is camouflage, dispersion, armouring up, supply chains, intelligence in its myriad forms, attacking the operators, disrupting comms, deception, etc.

WWI? WWII? Korea? Falklands? GWI?

Quite a bit. I havent yet seen a lot of evidence of drones being used offensively as part of go-forward combined arms maneauvre.
Instead we see they're being used as mobile mines or battlefield assassination tools. Which is genuinely really problematic, but also kind of a dead end street.
Edit: I'm excluding ISR above. That's already generally integrated and supplementing other systems

Quite a bit. I havent yet seen a lot of evidence of drones being used offensively as part of go-forward combined arms maneauvre.
Instead we see they're being used as mobile mines or battlefield assassination tools. Which is genuinely really problematic, but also kind of a dead end street.
Edit: I'm excluding ISR above. That's already generally integrated and supplementing other systems

Drones are part of a system - the whirrwhirr flying thing is just the end point of that system. The system can be attacked anywhere along its chain, and different points in the chain will need different combinations of things to effect an attack.
At the moment everyone seems exclusively focussed on knocking down the whirrwhirr. Thats part of it, but so is camouflage, dispersion, armouring up, supply chains, intelligence in its myriad forms, attacking the operators, disrupting comms, deception, etc.

Not exactly - the steel alloy used (high carbon and brittle) is chosen so as to create fragments which themselves contribute to the effectiveness of the weapon.
Artillery worked quite well before drones were a thing
 
Look, drones are great. The have capabilities that emulate or exceed other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. But drones also have limitations, and capabilites that are inferior to other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. And they most definitely aren't some magical uber weapon which has suddenly made all other military capabilities obsolete.

Not exactly - the steel alloy used (high carbon and brittle) is chosen so as to create fragments which themselves contribute to the effectiveness of the weapon.
Artillery worked quite well before drones were a thing
 
Look, drones are great. The have capabilities that emulate or exceed other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. But drones also have limitations, and capabilites that are inferior to other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. And they most definitely aren't some magical uber weapon which has suddenly made all other military capabilities obsolete.

Not exactly - the steel alloy used (high carbon and brittle) is chosen so as to create fragments which themselves contribute to the effectiveness of the weapon.
Artillery worked quite well before drones were a thing
 
Look, drones are great. The have capabilities that emulate or exceed other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. But drones also have limitations, and capabilites that are inferior to other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. And they most definitely aren't some magical uber weapon which has suddenly made all other military capabilities obsolete.

Not exactly - the steel alloy used (high carbon and brittle) is chosen so as to create fragments which themselves contribute to the effectiveness of the weapon.
Artillery worked quite well before drones were a thing
 
Look, drones are great. The have capabilities that emulate or exceed other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. But drones also have limitations, and capabilites that are inferior to other similar kinds of effects delivery systems. And they most definitely aren't some magical uber weapon which has suddenly made all other military capabilities obsolete.

Artillery fits all four, and handles the 50% haircut.

and what can be relied on to deliver that cubic mile of popcorn?
Oh.
Right.
Artillery ... because drones will definitely not be getting that job done.

Cheap-thing-takes-out-expensive-thing is not exactly a fresh hot take. Kipling was writing about that well over a hundred years ago.
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_arith.htm

Jeepers, Thanksgiving at your place must be thoroughly unpleasant then.

Cheap-thing-takes-out-expensive-thing is not exactly a fresh hot take. Kipling was writing about that well over a hundred years ago.
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_arith.htm

Well, flip that around - at what point would you prefer a global nuclear conflagration than the alternative?
My partner grew up in part of Soviet Russia which now is not part of Russia. Being part of Russia sucked, absolutely (her father, for a small example, came within a whisker of being 'volunteered' for heroic cleanup duty at Chernobyl), but that's in the rear view mirror now. It wouldn't be though if WWIII had broken out.

Cheap-thing-takes-out-expensive-thing is not exactly a fresh hot take. Kipling was writing about that well over a hundred years ago.
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_arith.htm

Cheap-thing-takes-out-expensive-thing is not exactly a fresh hot take. Kipling was writing about that well over a hundred years ago.
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_arith.htm

That reminds me of the carrier landing scene from 'Hot Shots!'
 
 

Jeepers, Thanksgiving at your place must be thoroughly unpleasant then.

Not so sure that characterization is correct.
Intercommunal conflict in Mandatory Palestine - Wikipedia
Problem is when you have an increasing influx of folks coming and an ensuing contest for land ownership etc, eventually you are going to have conflict.  The whole situation is really tragic.
Anyway off topic for here.

Once again proving that everything is funnier when there's a duck involved, no matter how unfunny it is at its core.

Oh gawd. 20+ years later, and we're back to MIHOP and LIHOP.

It could be technically true but wholly irrelevant. As in, "the terrs turned left out the back door and headed south down Stalinski Prospekt towards Ukraine!" Which, technically, yes, Ukraine is to the south of Moscow. 800-odd kms away. As long as they make no other turns.
By the same logic, if they,d have gone straight ahead they would be "heading for England!", back the other way would be "headed for Japan!", or a right turn would mean "headed for Finland!"