Other Means

Immersion seems to mean a lot of things to a lot of people. To some it's having the map appear as close to a battle as possible, but to me it means being able to have *tactics* as realistic as possible and for that reason I want as much SA as I can get. As much as each unit in the battle would have so I can make the decision they would. I appreciate there's other points of view but given that each position is an opinion - and so no one is going to be wrong - I think it might be more productive if the discussion turned to what feedback is needed and the best way to present it. I've given my idea, which will never happen - lets hear others. To start off, here's what I think is important to get over: morale movement posture (firing etc) casualty taken facing Anyone disagree?

What's a standover man? Sorry I can't add to what Wicky says, we don't allow criminals in Liverpool.

You don't think the Strat AI (i.e. the AI player, rather than the built in unit reactions) knows what's happening to each unit as it happens? Currently the Strat AI has that advantage over us. And as we're the squad leader as well as the CC we should know what goes on at squad level immediately. I'd settle for flashing icons as well.

Cheers Cpl Steiner, good footage.

AIUI the cover is abstracted within the tile, so everyone gets some bonus. Willing to get herring-battered and corrected.

Thing is, we don't just play as company commander, we play as squad leader - knowing the ammo levels, status and posture of every soldier, we play as company commander - telling each squad where to go, and we play as God - we see all and know all, so putting together every piece of information in your head. There's really no way around that except for own side FOW. If you fancy playing a game with lots of distant fire and a stock ticker to simulate what the CC knows then good luck - it sounds like hell to me. So what we need is a way for the information already available in the game to be seen immediately and in an engaging and intuitive way. A stock ticker doesn't do that - you may as well play Zork. Would you click on each line in it to go to the squad that's (e.g.)taken a casualty? So you'd get a notification, go to the spot, rewind the action 5 secs to see what happens - rinse repeat for every line for the whole minute? We're back to it being work - we don't see any of the drama of the firefight. Personally, I'd rather be able to see all the information I needed straight away, without clicking into visual range of each squad and having to review the action. If that's feedback in the icons the OK, if it's a review of what an icon is and how it can represent the action then even better.

Well, against what? Say an infantry squad, the AT-4's would be able to damage a BMP out to their 200m (?) at a lessening probability, whereas the small arms would still kill soldiers out to 500, the MG's out to 1000, the Javelin out to 5k - oh that could kill the BMP and any other AVF, except maybe a T90. A mortar would kill infantry from it's minimum to maximum range unless they had some kind of overhead protection. etc. etc. It's too complex a problem to be presented in a simple way on an arc, it would have to be on a case by case basis. Because of that I'd love something like CM1's chance-to-damage under the targeting cursor. I thought that worked very well.

American politics confuse and alarm me. That's where any discussion on world events with Americans immediately goes. And for that reason, I'm out.

Yeah good luck with that when you've got a company on the go in heavy woods. Even with that, has it managed to sustain your interest at CM1 levels? Because I think you're like me; it's the tactics that are interesting, and you need to see them to know what's working. Good luck with that too In fact wake me up, I've got beer.

I've changed it - it's now got sound contacts! ...I know, I know. I'm a pain in the arse. I just think it's a good idea, although I've officially stopped lobbying for it before I make a complete fool of myself. People came to wargaming from all corners, table-top gaming, card games, board games. CM1 took all that and improved on it. You had the 3 amigos running round but it showed the tactics. CM2 blows it out of the water when you're 50m away but over that you're playing with heavily armed tiddlywinks. I don't get any immersion from that - how can I, I can't see the tactics working. I've got to go round and say "OK, he's taking fire, he's in a position to cover, he's shooting" etc. You don't get that instant tactical gestalt that you need to really give yourself up to the game. If we could, this game would be in everyones top 5 for forever because it's all there, you just can't instantly grasp it.

An event log is a no go for me, as it's got no contextual information with it. I certainly don't know my units names and how else to associate the message with it? Besides, I think it's the wrong approach as it distracts from the actual battle. You shouldn't have to read a log to know something's happening. {Let me just say that I've been over-vocal of this idea, made an ass of myself about it in fact. Suffice to say it's not going to happen, but let me voice it because it might start debate.} Putting more info into icons is of course a great idea but for me, I'd like to re-address what the icons actually look like and why we need them. If you're face to face with a unit, that is it's <50m away then you don't need icons as you can see exactly what's happening, you can see them get suppressed, whether they're shooting, if they're moving etc. But if you're more than 200m (arbitrary figure) from them then the battlefield - and you're associated SA - is very sterile. It's a few loud noises and moving counters. Over 200m and you're playing a board game. So, I'd like icons that actually get over the main items of information (movement, facing, morale, firing) you need in an engaging, intuitive way. Therefore what I'd like is for the close units to be show as currently. All the soldiers visible, with an associated icon. But I'd like the units beyond 200m to have an associated icon, and I'd like this icon to be a 30m high, translucent soldier figure. This could show movement by moving, facing by its facing, shooting by shooting and morale by taking cover. It might look a bit jarring as there would be a size difference and as you got into range where you could see the soldiers proper the icon could fade out with the soldiers now being visible but I think you'd soon get used to the convention, as you do to all conventions. If all this sounds very familiar, it's because it's the best bits of CM1 and CM2 melded together. It's the instant SA of CM1 together with the brilliant immersion of the 1 - 1 from CM2. I think it might look a little like this (forgive the paint skills): (I've included command lines too. Because I like command lines - they do the job instantly - much like these icons.) You'll have to use your imagination for the translucency, but imagine seeing the ground through the icons and them looking more generic so you know it's an icon. It gives the player the info they need instantly. You can see everything straight away and will never lose track of another firefight. Your SA is instant, and the drama unfolding is there right in front of you, at a micro or macro (team leader or God) level. Ideas?

It looks like NASA have displaying large bias in their data management to make it look like temperatures are going up, but they're not.

The Aussy sport minister said "Great Britain may have been in lane seven and eight but, um, they seem to be getting there for a country that has very few swimming pools and not much soap." As a Brit I LOVE it. Properly funny and what rivalry should be all about.

Also, how do you multi-quote? I had a go of the buttons but it doesn't seem to do much.

Where do you see that view Moon?

Hey, I'm only dogmatic when I'm right

Looks like I don't understand the inference. And I thought I was doing so well...

Is it possible that instead of showing 1 2 3...last page as the page readout, the forum could show the last pages, e.g. 7 8 9? You're usually either starting from the beginning of a thread of have missed a bit and want to jump in near the end, IMHO.

Click on a unit and press tab to go to it. Find one facing the direction you want and tab to it - that's what I do.

OK fella. Not me that pissed you off you know.

It's the new body suits. Not only are they hydrodynamically designed to slip through the water but they pull the muscles in giving them greater leverage. There's even talk that doing so reduces pain, so you can go harder for longer. Note; this doesn't work with condoms.

I actually joined that board but never posted. It was full of posts by Lorren Bird talking about different AT shells - with diagrams. It was all too much for me. I had the username "deepinabunker30kback" IIRC.

He said active not sessile.

Fück it, if you want to ratchet up tensions that high, land in Georgia.

Reminds me of Agincourt. The best weapons used wrong will be a disaster.