Panzer Leader Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I was looking through my DVD catalogue (yep - they got me) and noticed a movie called "Stalingrad" that came out in 1993 with subtitles -- German I believe. So, what I wanna know is: is it good? What's it about? Should I get it? Will my war collection be complete without it? ------------------ And King Xerxes looked to King Leonidas and spoke. "Our Archers will rain arrows down upon you to blot out the sun." And King Leonidas replied: "Then we will fight in the shade." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Ive heard only bad things about the movie. Look it up at Amazon.com and read the reader reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Cracauer Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I will try to answer so that it is somewhat on-topic for CM2 The movies starts out very good, but gets more and more dramatic and unrelistic, with the last third not enjoyable for me. They show some nicely produced infantry attacks and a group of infantry with an AT gun blocking the attack of a T-34 platoon with infantry, definitivly the scale you will have in Combat Mission 2. Some of the equipment shots are flawless as far as I can judge, probably usable as a source for CM2 vehicle skins. The best thing about of the film is how it reflects the mood of the German soldiers after being in France and Italy, then in Russia and the characteristics of Germans from different regions. It's something like CMBO: you can say about the graphics whatever you way, but the sound as psychological tool is first-class. Most of that will be lost if you can't understand German, but if you only got subtitles, maybe not completely. I rate the film as very good, much better than private Ryan, but I turn it off after the scene on the airfield. The German DVD has english as second language in additions to subtitlles, BTW, see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/dvd/6305037280/tech-info/105-6786156-8875122 Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I agree with Martin Cracauer. The first 60 minutes are great, showing the street fighting in Stalingrad and the enormous stress put on the soldiers. It isn't a "typical" war movie with the "Schwerpunkt" set on the fighting scenes but to show how men will act under the horrors of war. IMHO more a "full metal jacket" than a "saving prv. Ryan". Ah, and the T 34 tank attack with german infantry close assaulting are really well done, very interesting for CM2! (Just to mention CM, so that Madmatt doesn't lock up this thread too soon... ) If you're interested in the Stalingrad fighting, I would recommend it. ------------------ Klotzen, nicht kleckern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I wasn't impressed by it. It's very . . . foreign. It's full of sentimentality and not much plot. IIRC, it has lots of German soldiers sitting around looking unhappy and disaffected, talking about how unhappy they are, how cold it is, how hungry they are, etc. Martin may be right about the quality of the war scenes. I don't remember that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Worth seeing - Its a movie that gets a lot of the details right. As mentioned, however, it does really begin to lose its steam after awhile. Its advertised as being 'made by the people who brought you Das Boot', but Das Boot is the superior film. GAFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcePylut Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Instead of focusing on 1 part of the battle, the director tries to give show the battle of Stalingrad thru the eyes of a "fire brigade". The main characters (SturmPionere's they were) basically go thru every horror that happened in the battle, from the street fighting to the steppe fighting to being thrown in a work battalion, having to execute people, etc etc. I have the dvd, and it's worth watching, but after the first 1.5 hours the movie really slows down and gets boring while everyone starves, but that's the way the battle went. This movie "Enemy at the Gates" that's coming out looks really good, it's based on the book of the same name but I think the plot will follow the book "War of the Rats" a lot more. All in all, I'd recommend Stalingrad to watch (don't forget, it came out in 93) and purchase if you want. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 I would give the movie a "C+". The movie has some nicely done combat sequences and you can identify with the plight of the German platoon. But the movie is way too long and many of the sequences add little to the movie. Also it is difficult at times to keep straight which characteres are which. Another annoying feature is the sense of victimization of the German Landser. The director clearly places the blame for the catastrophe on the hands of the officer corps while portraying the German soldiers as innocent, compassionate men. The soldiers show so much sympathy for the destitute civilians and Russian POWs. This is quite contrary to history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
82nd Airborne Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Originally posted by Panzer Leader: I was looking through my DVD catalogue (yep - they got me) and noticed a movie called "Stalingrad" that came out in 1993 with subtitles -- German I believe. So, what I wanna know is: is it good? What's it about? Should I get it? Will my war collection be complete without it? If it's the old B&W version(German subtitles,full title "You dogs want to live forever IIRC), then it is a great show. If it is the new colour version, it's the sh*ts. Sounds like you are talking about the old version though, so it would be a nice addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Originally posted by The Commissar: Ive heard only bad things about the movie. Look it up at Amazon.com and read the reader reviews. What??? Huh??? Did you read the reviews with an open mind or did you read them with nazi cynicism? There is a very good review on the first page at Amazon.com from a "reviewer from Athens Greece" Oh don't look Babra! Nothing to see here. The film looks at the hardships of common soldiers on the battlefield. Yes there is some excellent combat footage, in the streets, inside buidlings, in the sewers, in the open against T-34 platoon with BT-7 support, then the film turns to the hardships of a squad of German soldiers as they try to survive the harsh winter conditions. ------------------ "Upon my signal, unleash Hell."--General Maximus, Gladiator "Aim small, miss small."--Mel Gibson, The Patriot "I do what I likes, and I likes what I do."--Darrell Hammond (portraying Bill Clinton), SNL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted March 9, 2001 Share Posted March 9, 2001 Rented the color Stalingrad 9 months ago -- the first 30 minutes were not bad, raising my hopes that it would be a Guy Sajer type of memoir. Unfortunately, it didn't stay that way. At the risk of starting another thread on war film conventions, it seems to me that the filmmakers were aiming at an Apocalypse Now or Cross of Iron-- a stylized/surrealist nightmare version of the war tinged with Vietnam-era squishiness. I was also irritated at how they painted the politics of the time such crude terms -- Landser=good working class fellows Russians=good working class fellows Officers= bad, effeminate, cowardly, corrupt and responsible for all the bad stuff the Nazis did (so most of the parents of you ordinary Germans in the audience weren't really to blame, you see. We're all victims, after all-- typical 60s moral relativism). And the pointless S&M/bondage scene toward the end with the Russian POW girl simply reinforces nasty stereotypes about German psychology.... Denouncing war while titillating your audience is about as low as you can get. If you like this kind of kinky stuff in a war film, Cross of Iron did it better. A lot of grogs like COI because, frankly, there haven't been many other Western films dealing with Our Favourite Campaign, but IMHO that film is kind of overrated too. So if the 60s Antiwar War Film convention has run its course, let's see what the James Cameron Historical Epic With Androgynous Haircuts style does with Drang Nach Osten. Flame away, kids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 There I was, stoking the fires of hell, and I heard my name... I haven't seen it since it was released, but I remember coming out of the theatre feeling dissatisfied. I don't specifically recall why. ------------------ "Za Rodentia!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Originally posted by Forever Babra: There I was, stoking the fires of hell, and I heard my name... Get back to work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEGEND Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 since your talking war movies, how come there has never been a movie about the largest tank batlle in the history of war, kursk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Haircuts were great, weapons good, uniforms only so-so. Plot ridiculous - 3 million people in Stalingrad and our heros meet up with the same MP captain, Russian boy and Russian girl over and over and over???? European ending (everyone dies in the snow). "Otto" character appears from nowhere and his background is not explained - "You used to be an officer" Good looking movie, but wearisome towards the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Originally posted by Maximus: What??? Huh??? Did you read the reviews with an open mind or did you read them with nazi cynicism? There is a very good review on the first page at Amazon.com from a "reviewer from Athens Greece" Oh don't look Babra! Nothing to see here. The film looks at the hardships of common soldiers on the battlefield. Yes there is some excellent combat footage, in the streets, inside buidlings, in the sewers, in the open against T-34 platoon with BT-7 support, then the film turns to the hardships of a squad of German soldiers as they try to survive the harsh winter conditions. Forgive my Nazi ways, oh Maximus! I will never have opinions that differ from your own from this point forward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 It's okay, Commissar; you were just following orders.... ------------------ "Za Rodentia!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howitzer Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 OK, there is truly NO accounting for taste, but I have to give the movie both of my thumbs... ...up, that is. Yes, it does get slow toward the end, but I believe the effect is intentional and meant to represent the final weeks as endured by the German soldiers with the knowledge that they were doomed -- and for NO worthy reason. BUT, it gives you a great feeling of the transition of the landsers' mood from times of victory to deadly struggle and finally to despair , and it does a very credible job of bringing you the claustrophobic feeling of Stalingrad's brutal street fighting. IMHO, everyone with an interest in WWII should watch it. Regards, Howitzer (aka Steve C.) [This message has been edited by Howitzer (edited 03-09-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Haircuts were great, weapons good, uniforms only so-so. Plot ridiculous - 3 million people in Stalingrad and our heros meet up with the same MP captain, Russian boy and Russian girl over and over and over???? European ending (everyone dies in the snow). "Otto" character appears from nowhere and his background is not explained - "You used to be an officer" Good looking movie, but wearisome towards the end. Michael has got it right, the coincidences only a complete cretin could overlook. Also, what happens to the characters wouldn't have been a typical Stalingrad experience. But that's judging it as a movie: Stalingrad 1993 was actually shot as a TV series and then hacked to pieces for the big screen. Must explain why the plot is slightly f**ked. If Stalingrad was released as the original TV series I would definitely buy it, but no way the current version. Buy the forthcoming Cross Of Iron Special Edition instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Dog Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Originally posted by M. Bates: But that's judging it as a movie: Stalingrad 1993 was actually shot as a TV series and then hacked to pieces for the big screen. Must explain why the plot is slightly f**ked. If Stalingrad was released as the original TV series I would definitely buy it, but no way the current version. Buy the forthcoming Cross Of Iron Special Edition instead Why is it that they can't just release the whole series instead of hacking the plot apart? I really hate it when they do this kind of thing. Cross of Iron Special Edition? Haven't heard anything on this. Any more info? DVD? When? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Cracauer Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Originally posted by Red Dog: Why is it that they can't just release the whole series instead of hacking the plot apart? I really hate it when they do this kind of thing. I don't think filmed material exists, if the original plan was a series it got changed early. Any references on the series information? Cross of Iron Special Edition? Haven't heard anything on this. Any more info? DVD? When? Here in Germany we have a new DVD of part I and II, but only German mono sound. Guess I will prefer a TV/VHS recording. No idea how to pull this on-topic again, sorry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 I read on a website somewhere that Warner Bros. are putting together a similtaneous USA and Europe release of a special edition Cross Of Iron. Apparently there is a very good French anamorphic disc already available: the option is obviously there to turn off the French subtitling and have the English language soundtrack. Re Stalingrad, I think I remember it was of series concept from looking at www.imdb.com . It's by the same people as Das Boot, but whereas Das Boot has definitely been shown on TV, I can't the same for Stalingrad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Steiner Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Hi all With regards to Cross Of Iron on Dvd I have 2 versions (along with VHS & Betamax videos !!) A Region 1 version was released some time ago by a company named Hens Tooth however it was in 4:3 aspect ratio and transfer was grainy and generally poor. A new Region 2 (PAL) version has just been released through Warner Bros (& Studio Canal) which is Widescreen (16:9 enhanced) with a vastly superior picture quality sadly the soundtrack is only in Mono. (I got mine thro www.play247.com) Now if they would just release the excellent score on CD (I have an old vinyl LP which just does not cut it nowadays) Cheers [This message has been edited by Sgt Steiner (edited 03-10-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadayne Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 This movie was a German/Czechoslovak production. (I think much of the steppes fighting was shot in what is now Slovakia) I actually saw the premiere here in Prague on super wide-screen surround sound, with attendant cast and director, and Czech big wigs. Unfortunately I didn't speak much czech or german at the time so I couldn't follow much of the dialogue or speak to the cast, but the one thing I still remember vividly was the reaction of the crowd as the movie ended -stunned. Literally nobody moved or made a sound all the way through the closing credits and then a few tense seconds after the lights went up. Personally, I thought it was pretty powerful stuff. So did everyone else, because after those few tense seconds WILD applause broke out. I'd never seen an audience react that way (except in the movies), and I've been to quite a few premieres. Anyway, I thought the movie was good. It was a catharsis picture which, as has been stated, clearly put the blame on the officer class. As for the end, I didn't mind that either. I like those abstracted war/nightmare interpretation movies (ala. catch 22, full metal jacket). I actually haven't seen it since then, so if I saw it now on DVD my opinion might be different.Mebbe you've just got to see it on super wide-screen to appreciate it. You mentioning it here, though, just brought back that memory. Thanks. I'm gonna go rent it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted March 10, 2001 Share Posted March 10, 2001 Originally posted by Sgt Steiner: Hi all With regards to Cross Of Iron on Dvd I have 2 versions (along with VHS & Betamax videos !!) A Region 1 version was released some time ago by a company named Hens Tooth however it was in 4:3 aspect ratio and transfer was grainy and generally poor. A new Region 2 (PAL) version has just been released through Warner Bros (& Studio Canal) which is Widescreen (16:9 enhanced) with a vastly superior picture quality sadly the soundtrack is only in Mono. (I got mine thro www.play247.com) Now if they would just release the excellent score on CD (I have an old vinyl LP which just does not cut it nowadays) Cheers [This message has been edited by Sgt Steiner (edited 03-10-2001).] You sound like a fan so could you answer this: At the end of The Willing Flesh, Steiner is lifted along the tunnel. Do you think he dies at the end, or does he have a vision of Anne, before getting out the other end of the tunnel. I've never been able to work it out definitely although I suppose it's likely Willi Heinrich means that Steiner dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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