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Oleksandr

Ukrainian Side is Seriously Underpowered

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1 hour ago, Armorgunner said:

Nope, its not. It is RHA 300HB

Do you have a reference/proof? Sorry just find it hard to believe in 20mm RHA penetration for 7.62 :( Don't have the data for SLAPs but for full caliber cartridges 7.62 packs almost six times less energy than .50BMG.

Update: Sorry posted at the very moment you provided the data for 5.56. Yeah, if 5.56 can defeat 12mm of 300HB I guess 7.62 can go through 20mm. Thanks for the very interesting information! :)

Edited by IMHO

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Automatized 120 mm mortar complex Bars-8MMK, based on Bars-8 armored car, adopted for Army. First battery will come to service soon.

Deploy time 35 seconds, pack-up time - 25 seconds. 

Complex has automatic firing data calculating, targeting and equipped with fire control system.

Crew: 2 gunners + driver.

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Video how it works for 2017 year. Vehicle of 2019 version has some changes.

 

Edited by Haiduk

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10 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Second hand 2S1s from the Czech Republic.  :unsure:

Two new brigades is under forming, looks like they will go to 61st jager infantry brigade, which has single artillery unit - battalion of 2S1

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On 9/26/2019 at 3:03 AM, Haiduk said:

Two new brigades is under forming, looks like they will go to 61st jager infantry brigade, which has single artillery unit - battalion of 2S1

I'd take a 122mm assault howitzer over a fancy MRAP mortar -- any day of the week. Could have used some on-map 2S1's in the Shield of Kiev campaign.

There's really no better choice in the light mobile howitzer/assault gun role, and 122mm is such a versatile caliber.

Edited by DerKommissar

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22 hours ago, ikalugin said:

To be honest 120mm gun-mortars can be better, ie Nona and it's derivatives.

In which regard? Surely the D30 is more powerful than a 120mm mortar. If I remember correctly, the 2s1 also carries more ammo.

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1 hour ago, DerKommissar said:

In which regard? Surely the D30 is more powerful than a 120mm mortar. If I remember correctly, the 2s1 also carries more ammo.

Soldiers say most terrible thing at war on the level of battalion is 120 mm mortar. Especially if gunners are skilled. 

Edited by Haiduk

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4 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

In which regard? Surely the D30 is more powerful than a 120mm mortar. If I remember correctly, the 2s1 also carries more ammo.

Nona&co have more potent ammo options, which are broadly comparable with 152mm classics.

That is one of it's main selling points so to speak.

This is achieved by having thinner walls in shells that use lower ballistics.

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22 hours ago, DerKommissar said:

In which regard? Surely the D30 is more powerful than a 120mm mortar. If I remember correctly, the 2s1 also carries more ammo.

For sure, it is. In total, and you have the numbers, Because you can fire at long range. But Close up, in mortar range! You get a lot more down range, with a 12cm mortar. And the ammo carried? You shoot, and go. Before enemy counter artillery, go down on you. Reload somewhere safe. If you try out, to stay on the same Place. And empty your loadout. You are dead. In modern warfare!

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On 9/30/2019 at 12:43 PM, Haiduk said:

Soldiers say most terrible thing at war on the level of battalion is 120 mm mortar. Especially if gunners are skilled. 

On 9/30/2019 at 3:53 PM, ikalugin said:

Nona&co have more potent ammo options, which are broadly comparable with 152mm classics.

23 hours ago, Armorgunner said:

You shoot, and go. Before enemy counter artillery, go down on you. Reload somewhere safe. If you try out, to stay on the same Place. And empty your loadout. You are dead. In modern warfare!

Fair enough. ROF is higher for a mortar. I'll concede indirect fire support firepower. Mobility, as well -- wheels are quick, and the tube is lighter.

During my time in the Shield of Kiev campaign, I struggled to establish fire superiority. In my understanding of Soviet doctrine, fire superiority IS maneuver. I am but a humble Canuck, so I may be entirely wrong.

I tended to use BTR-4s as IFVs, which lead to some disastrous losses. The Oplot-Ms were my only real means of engaging entrenched infantry, and they were of short supply. I have big love for indirect fire support, in terms of both howitzers and mortars -- but, even with modern tech, direct fire is still more expedient.

What I wanted were those old Soviet assault guns or a Mobile Gun System. Something that can lob serious shells on overwatch, in support of infantry. That'd make the Cossacks think twice before popping out of a house to gun down a squad advancing along a street.

2s1 ticked most of my boxes: big shell, tracked mobility, decent magazine and small silhouette. After seeing videos of them being used widely in Syria, both in direct, and indirect roles -- I agree with augmenting a Jager brigade with such machines.

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