Lethaface Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Just got back from holidays and through mainstream media reports I get the impression that a new escalation in violence is to be expected sooner than later. Anyone more informed care to shed some light on these reports? Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-military-idUSKBN0OC2K820150527 Looks that way, the Russians are massing unmarked tanks, artillery and APC/IFV's on the Ukrainian border again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Poor Ukraine is bending over backwards trying to not do anything that could then be construed (or propagandized) as a 'provocation'. It seems rather futile. Though there are rumors Ukraine special forces did light up a massive ammo dump around Dontesk recently, the primary supply depot for the Pisky area. One interesting thing, a number of Russian drones being shot down over Ukraine lately are in fact IAI manufactured - Israeli Aircraft Industries. So basically American tax payer money has partially assisted in the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Edited May 29, 2015 by MikeyD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 The great tragedy of Eastern Europe is having Russians for neighbors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Just got back from holidays and through mainstream media reports I get the impression that a new escalation in violence is to be expected sooner than later. Anyone more informed care to shed some light on these reports? Cheers. Lots of speculation, but I doubt anyone really knows. Could simply be Russia hedging it's bets. Threat being there for some kind of concessions? Not likely to get them much, but an offensive is just going to cause the West to double down and probably give serious weight to providing weapons i.e. Javelins. If the West comes to the conclusion that there is no point to further negotiations then who knows what the hell is next. Russia seems to be in a bit of a quandary. No way out, no way forward. This is where the US press would be screaming about what is our exit strategy. Putin may not have a free press, but I am betting somewhere in his head a voice is screaming that. Whether he is listening is a whole other question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0ckAndL0ad Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Poor Ukraine is bending over backwards This is so true. Wonder who bends it over tho. Not oligarchs and foreign hawks/neocons/wanted criminals, I presume. Ukraine's being ruled by its people, we all know that. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/05/29/the-not-very-nice-things-u-s-officials-used-to-say-about-ukraines-new-president/ http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-appoints-us-senator-mccain-presidential-aide-003503382.html http://photocdn2.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/uploads/i/20150513/4007950.jpg http://www.unian.info/politics/1083763-poroshenko-to-personally-introduce-saakashvili-as-odesa-region-governor-on-saturday-source.html http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/minister-saakashvili-will-go-from-georgian-president-to-odesa-governor-389869.html White horse riding for the win! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttorneyAtWar Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 This is so true. Wonder who bends it over tho. Not oligarchs and foreign hawks/neocons/wanted criminals, I presume. Ukraine's being ruled by its people, we all know that. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/05/29/the-not-very-nice-things-u-s-officials-used-to-say-about-ukraines-new-president/ http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-appoints-us-senator-mccain-presidential-aide-003503382.html http://photocdn2.itar-tass.com/width/744_b12f2926/tass/m2/uploads/i/20150513/4007950.jpg http://www.unian.info/politics/1083763-poroshenko-to-personally-introduce-saakashvili-as-odesa-region-governor-on-saturday-source.html http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv-post-plus/minister-saakashvili-will-go-from-georgian-president-to-odesa-governor-389869.html White horse riding for the win! Oh yeah it has nothing to do with the Russian backed invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, and the continuing war cutting the country in half. Nope none at all, infact its the Americans fault! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitehot78 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 The great tragedy of Eastern Europe is having Russians for neighbors. at least those who aren't neighbours are safe from them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0ckAndL0ad Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Oh yeah it has nothing to do with the Russian backed invasion of Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, and the continuing war cutting the country in half. Nope none at all, infact its the Americans fault! What is this, some kind of justification for putting those people in power in Ukraine? I see no link between what I've pointed out and what you've said. And you are missing my point. A lot of people do white horse riding and whitewash Kiev govt, comparing them with evil Russia (which indeed does evil things) in a "good boys vs bad boys" manner, but in fact, Kiev govt is not "poor". They are also corrupt, lying, warmongering lunatics and criminals. And I used Western press links to show you that, not some RT propaganda some people might think I'm influenced by. I mean, freaking Saakashvili, governor of Odessa? What a joke. Why I brought this up and why it is relevant to the thread? Because Kiev govt is not interested in Minsk agreements being fulfilled. They will not disarm their own militia they barely control. They will not allow reforms that are written in Minsk agreement. Therefore the conflict will keep going and going. Edited May 30, 2015 by L0ckAndL0ad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 however Russia is even less jnterested in Minsk agreements being honored and broke them almost immediately. also ukraine didnt annex part of Russia its vice versa and ukrainian troops arent fighting in western russia russian troops are fighting in eastern ukraine. i dont think most of the west gives a toss for ukraine itself it just doesnt like aggressive dictatorships invading neighbors. we had a problem with that before ya know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Kyiv govt "warmongering"? They didn't invade another country using its crisis because of some stupid imperialistic agenda causing suffering of common folk and occupy whole regions of that other's country's territory. So "warmongering" they didn't even stop russian specops taking over towns in Donbass Crimea-style for nearly a month. Yes Kyiv govt is so "corrupt" they can't even do jack to anti-ukrainian forces of Yanukovich that are still in power in many places. Yanuk's forces WIN cases in "junta" courts. If anything our govt is toothless when it comes to at least cleaning the complete trash out of power (and I mean "opposition" of course). I haven't voted for Poroshenko because I'm perfectly aware of all his bad sides however he's eons better than that piece of **** we had who flooded the center of a capital with blood and ran away guess where when retribution came knocking. Edited May 30, 2015 by kraze 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 ITS YOUR FAULT I HAVE TO INVADE YOU AND TAKE PARTS OF YOUR COUNTRY AND ANNEX THEM TO MINE. BUT I AM NOT AT WAR WITH YOU. I AM PEACEFUL. PLEASE SURRENDER TO THOSE GUYS THAT ARE TOTALLY NOT MY TROOPS, JUST HAVE MY GUNS. While the "World without America" is an alarmist self important book designed to make yankee imperialists feel good about themselves, a "World without Russia" book would rather be a utopian novel in which Eastern Europe actually gets to thrive, and various tin pot dictators find themselves out of friends, time, and Russian guns. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 What is this, some kind of justification for putting those people in power in Ukraine? I see no link between what I've pointed out and what you've said. And you are missing my point. A lot of people do white horse riding and whitewash Kiev govt, comparing them with evil Russia (which indeed does evil things) in a "good boys vs bad boys" manner, but in fact, Kiev govt is not "poor". They are also corrupt, lying, warmongering lunatics and criminals. And I used Western press links to show you that, not some RT propaganda some people might think I'm influenced by. I mean, freaking Saakashvili, governor of Odessa? What a joke. Why I brought this up and why it is relevant to the thread? Because Kiev govt is not interested in Minsk agreements being fulfilled. They will not disarm their own militia they barely control. They will not allow reforms that are written in Minsk agreement. Therefore the conflict will keep going and going. Well I agree with the very last line anyway, but none of the premise. Minsk will fail because Russia is stuck with no options. This is a Russian instigated war and it won't end till Russia gets it's bloody hands off Ukraine. You can criticize the Ukrainian gov't all you want and some of it might even be true, but that is all just a distraction. We know who started the war, we know who keeps it going. Get your gov't the hell out of their country and then maybe someone might actually care about your opinion of their gov't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0ckAndL0ad Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Get your gov't the hell out of their country and then maybe someone might actually care about your opinion of their gov't. Funniest thing is, all civilized world says I'm still a Ukrainian citizen and live on Ukrainian land (occupied, obv) Civilized world has to be more consistent But you're totally right, my opinion doesn't really matter. It's free of charge, tho! Edited May 30, 2015 by L0ckAndL0ad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 But you're totally right, my opinion doesn't really matter The value of your arguments is granted by the statements you make. Which is to say I agree with your self assessment of their validity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Need to readjust your thought process there. In a thread about the possibility of new fighting in Ukraine you start justifying the Russian invasion based on the Ukrainian government being less than ideal? The Russian government is the invading force and their reasons for invasion are at best trumped up but really not justified (by that I mean there has been no credible argument made by the Russian government for the invasion). There are plenty of people here who are happy to criticise a corrupt government but first let's get the Russian government's invasion force and weapons out of Ukraine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0ckAndL0ad Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I haven't voted for Poroshenko because I'm perfectly aware of all his bad sides however he's eons better than that piece of **** we had who flooded the center of a capital with blood and ran away guess where when retribution came knocking. That awkward moment when everybody knows that the President is corrupt, but as long as the West (with US being the first in line) backs him up, it's okay, because they want as much puppet states as they can get and can't be too picky. The more I think about it, if you get people like Saakashvili (another US puppet), Yushchenko, Poroshenko, Yatsenyuk and Co, and how many more are out there, all together, you might even be able to form a whole separate government with them, if placed on some sort of distant island Oh, wait..!!! Need to readjust your thought process there. In a thread about the possibility of new fighting in Ukraine you start justifying the Russian invasion based on the Ukrainian government being less than ideal? Me, justifying crimes? O_o On a contrary. But don't worry, I'm not going to bother all of you with endless discussions about it here. Got finals starting in two days. Still couldn't miss to comment such funny statements on the forum! Like, it was really funny to read. And not funny, at the same time, if you know what I mean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) Me, justifying crimes? O_o On a contrary. But don't worry, I'm not going to bother all of you with endless discussions about it here. Got finals starting in two days. Still couldn't miss to comment such funny statements on the forum! Like, it was really funny to read. And not funny, at the same time, if you know what I mean. Well probably not as intended, but as a guy who welcomed Russia's green men in Crimea, you really don't have much of a leg to stand on. Sometime I'd love to buy you a beer and get your perspective on the overall LnL, but I can't say I respect your willingness/need to slam the current Ukrainian gov't when your chosen gov't is so over the top corrupt and is waging a war against a sovereign nation based on nothing more than it doesn't like that it's chosen select group of corrupt leaders got ridden out of town. And no that farce of an election doesn't even come close to international standards, whether the situation in Crimea can be negotiated while under illegal occupation is not how these things are normally done. Even in Iraq, armed US troops didn't sit in the room to make sure their puppet got elected. Seems Putin wanted to be very sure how the "vote" went. Unfortunately I think we have strayed a bit over the "no politics" line. Edited May 30, 2015 by sburke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Actually if anything his argument is equally valid for the Poles redressing the issue of lands stolen from them by the Soviet Union, a return of Konigsberg to Germany and someone annexing Chechnya. The corrupt Russian state simply shouldn't be allowed to hold onto those things someone else could put to much better use, so it's the moral imperative unmarked military personnel and purchased street thugs come solve that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Oh that Evil US putting its puppets everywhere. Through open elections no less. Those imaginary US puppets are so Evil, goddamn, they just sit in there being Evil. Let's just invade their lands and murder everyone, that sure gonna show them how Evil those US puppets are 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted May 30, 2015 Author Share Posted May 30, 2015 Let's stop the who's more evil discussion for now, I think all arguments have been exchanged in previous threats. We can all agree to disagree on certain aspects of the global macro geopolitics thing and it's influence on regional turmoil like the current Ukraine Crisis. The reason for posting this topic was that I noticed that Ukraine become hot again in the news over here, after a relative 'calm' period. Among other stuff I watched an interview with the current leader of SHAPE (Supreme Hq Allied Powers Europe) stating that Russia has intensified separatist training and has moved a lot of heavy equipment and munition into East Ukraine. Also reports like the one Raptor posted about military camps and recently paved roads near the border. Personally I think that a new large scale offensive by separatist forces (and backed by Russia) will now trigger a different Western response. Direct Western weapon deliveries or even Poland sending 'volunteer' forces aren't out of the question imo, in case the the balance will tip more towards the separatist elements. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 US puppets? are you kidding me?, LnL do you think ANYONE in America really cares what goes on in Russia or Ukraine? weonly care when you guys start invading and killkng people. then we start caring. thats about it. Both countries are regarded as corrupt poor crapholes last on everyones vacation list i honestly dont understand the russisn fixation on dastardly US plots and spies around Russia when honestly until you guys stsrt threateningn us or the rest of the world we.d rather ignore you and your idiot leader whos obsessed with riding horses around without a shirt on 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTR Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 US puppets? are you kidding me?, LnL do you think ANYONE in America really cares what goes on in Russia or Ukraine? weonly care when you guys start invading and killkng people. then we start caring. thats about it. Both countries are regarded as corrupt poor crapholes last on everyones vacation list i honestly dont understand the russisn fixation on dastardly US plots and spies around Russia when honestly until you guys stsrt threateningn us or the rest of the world we.d rather ignore you and your idiot leader whos obsessed with riding horses around without a shirt on Into my collection of chauvinistic phrases on the internet this goes. This forum seems to be excellent at generating exactly these types of statements . I sincerely hope this thread survives some more pages though, these types of discussions seem to bring out the best in all of us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Into my collection of chauvinistic phrases on the internet this goes. This forum seems to be excellent at generating exactly these types of statements . I sincerely hope this thread survives some more pages though, these types of discussions seem to bring out the best in all of us. You must have a honkin big hard drive to collect internet chauvinism. That was kind of a doozy I think someone got under sublime's skin just a wee bit. He's from Boston though, what do ya expect? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzersaurkrautwerfer Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 do you think ANYONE in America really cares what goes on in Russia or Ukraine? It's still a true statement, sneering Russian imperialism aside. Until Russia invaded the Ukraine, the amount of "give a damn" of what happens in Russia fell somewhere below someone else's third favorite sports team, or what star trek rerun was on tonight. Ukraine ranked somewhere around the common person's concern for knowing the proper scientific name for the spider on the wall. I'm pretty sure Russia could set up camps to contain the homosexual menace and we'd only eyeroll and go back to reality TV shows. It's just once the boots of Russian troops trod on countries that are not actually Russian, and then the russian government pretends we're all as stupid as you think we are to believe the dump truck of lies that followed that invasion, that we get a little more interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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