Bil Hardenberger Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 The Thirty Fourth Minute - Part 1 Tiger vs Firefly For the following Tiger versus Firefly exchange I am going to let the images tell the story... only the Tiger is hull down but both are behind a lot of vegetation. It is interesting how many misses there were in this exchange. Both tanks were firing over the wall, I think the firing solution was more difficult for the Firefly. After this first hit the Firefly buttoned up, popped smoke and started to reverse. It did not fire again.. the Tiger fired between this first hit and the following but missed high So the turn ends with me losing sight of the Firefly through the smoke.. I suspect it is dead, but I will have to wait to find out for sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share Posted June 22, 2013 The Thirty Fourth Minute - Part 2 While Dollinger's Tiger dueled with the Firefly one of my Pz-IVs who was area firing into the buildings in the Triangle Compound spotted this driving into the compound attempting to hit one of my far left Pz-IVs... ...his first shot hits and penetrates... ...the Sherman then buttoned and started to reverse, however, it failed to reverse far enough and my Pz-IV got another shot in brewing up the tank. The Blood Board.. note that I have not added the Firefly kill yet.. I need to confirm that kill before adding it to the board. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 That's a real ding dong tank battle. I'm having a similar exchange of fire in my PBEM. PzIVs sneaking around in the bushes whilst my heavier armour dukes it out at long range with sniping Fireflies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Dollinger vs. the Firefly: The Firefly gets hit by 2 other penetrating impacts on its left side during the fight, while the Tiger is missing. What else was shooting at the Firefly? Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 Ken, those impacts you see are the Pz-IV v the Sherman V by the Triangle Compound... shown in part 2 of the turn report. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Great read. Thoroughly enjoying this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The Thirty Fifth Minute Still no news on the Firefly that was hit last turn, but Dollinger did get a bead on the Sherman III again, fired and again hit the enemy tank.. this time the round penetrated though. However the tank popped smoke and withdrew.. I am just a little surprised at the resilience of Shermans in this game. I had forgotten to tell you that I received a Panther Platoon a few turns ago. Thanks for all the cool toys George!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The Thirty Sixth Minute The Sherman III that was hit last turn has repositioned.. however unfortunately it is still in sight of Dollinger's Tiger which was taking aim at the end of the turn. In the Gaumesnil compound one of my Pz-IVs gets a bead on and fires at the Firefly on the right.. however he only gets a partial penetration.. and the Firefly has him in view as well.. this could end one of two ways.. and its not really an even fight. The latest SITMAP shows my current dispositions.. note that the Firefly I hit a couple turns ago has been confirmed as knocked out... also note that I have officially cleared the Gaumesnil compound.. only the enemy infantry in and around the Triangle compound remain to be cleared out of the objective. Also note that I have sent a Pz-IV section around the left flank to scout and engage Warren's tanks on the next line. I have also identified a third Firefly on line with the other two... okay, now I'm getting worried. A line of three Fireflies is not going to be easy to crack. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The Thirty Seventh Minute - Part 1 A bad turn again for me... I made two costly mistakes and Warren made me pay. The Pz-IV that was facing off with the Firefly at the end of the last turn was fired on and destroyed before he could withdraw. Dollinger was fired on by the Sherman III that repositioned last turn... this round hits the wall in front of him. Dollinger responded and quickly puts an end to the affair. Mistake #1 The first Jpz moves to the road keeping its front angled towards the Sherman that I know is down the road... he takes a couple of bounced hits and returns fire which miss. The second Jpz however.. and I don't know what made me do this... but it moves onto the road with its flank fat and available for a round from the Sherman V.. which he promptly receives... damn. Mistake #2 Now THIS was a hell of a shot... I had a Pz-IV on the backside of one of the buildings in the Triangle Compound providing some VERY close support fire to root out the crews that were stubbornly holding out there. They succeed in routing or killing the enemy crews, but a Firefly takes what looks like an impossible shot and hits and kills my panzer... double damn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The Thirty Seventh Minute - Part 2 The current situation shows that I have two tanks, the Jpz and one Tiger that can spot the Sherman V, and another, Wittmann, who can spot the Firefly that just killed the Pz-IV near the Triangle Compound. In fact, I believe it was that firing which helped Wittmann spot him. The latest, and improved Blood Board.. now showing total kills and turns from the current turn (in red). Enjoy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The Thirty Fifth Minute Still no news on the Firefly that was hit last turn, but Dollinger did get a bead on the Sherman III again, fired and again hit the enemy tank.. this time the round penetrated though. However the tank popped smoke and withdrew.. I am just a little surprised at the resilience of Shermans in this game. Bil I am not surprised having found by myself while I played it in R.T. I told you about earlier. Quote// @ Bil The Tigers are very good when used at long distances from a foe. The Firefly is a hard nut to crack. Especially when it is well hidden and waiting for a coming tank.......................I had been almost disappointed after repeated failed attempts to destroy the Shermans........... They were not the “Ronson lighters” so often laughed about by the German crews. End quote// Playing that scenario in RT I had a hell of a time getting to Gaumesnil and past it. I also had nearly all the Tigers attack on the right of the map, I won't say no more and let the FOW for the time being. If I can still make a bet on your losses for the Tigers I am thinking that 3 will be totally destroyed and 2 will be immobilized with tracks and later gun damage. BTW I am finding your battles pictures fantastic. What is your graphic card and computer type ? I am about to get a new desktop and would not like to miss the wrong one. Thanks in advance. Cheer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted June 28, 2013 Author Share Posted June 28, 2013 Bil I am not surprised having found by myself while I played it in R.T. I told you about earlier. Quote// @ Bil The Tigers are very good when used at long distances from a foe. The Firefly is a hard nut to crack. Especially when it is well hidden and waiting for a coming tank.......................I had been almost disappointed after repeated failed attempts to destroy the Shermans........... They were not the “Ronson lighters” so often laughed about by the German crews. End quote// Playing that scenario in RT I had a hell of a time getting to Gaumesnil and past it. I also had nearly all the Tigers attack on the right of the map, I won't say no more and let the FOW for the time being. If I can still make a bet on your losses for the Tigers I am thinking that 3 will be totally destroyed and 2 will be immobilized with tracks and later gun damage. BTW I am finding your battles pictures fantastic. What is your graphic card and computer type ? I am about to get a new desktop and would not like to miss the wrong one. Thanks in advance. Cheer When I said I was surprised by the Sherman's toughness, I meant against the Tigers... even with that big gun it sometimes take two or three penetrations to finish one off. Not that I think anything is wrong with that, it just surprised me. Many times one hit is sufficient of course. Don't worry about FOW... this battle is over now. I've got you down for 3 of the 5 remaining Tigers being destroyed. As for my computer specs, I have an Alienware M17XR4 laptop with 16 GB RAM, i7 processor (2.7 GHz) and an NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660M video card. It works fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 @Bil Thanks for your laptop specs. ------------Attention Spoilers-------------------------------------------- Here after is a board showing the tanks having scored kills. The scoring of 3 tanks and above is shown in yellow Two of the Tigers are being shown even if they have not scored a kill. I have probably not seen on the AAR map all the destroyed tanks (and therefore, their score), since I have only found 2 Tigers shot by the allied for 4 being destroyed. These two might have been taken out by an ATG and or an Allied tank, that I have not seen when I took the AAR map pictures. As a matter of fact it is difficult to locate destroyed units, since there are no Icons to show them. Maybe that could be done later by BF with a color signifying that the unit is indeed destroyed. The Axis lost in the battle 41 tanks against 29 for the Allied. So the kill board is far from showing all the kills. I have not found looking at the pictures taken on the AAR map in December, which German Infantry unit, AT team and or tank did a kill on the unaccredited 14 Allied tanks. The same applies for the 15 unaccredited German tanks. The best kills were made by the Firefly of Richardson. I must point out that he was located on the far edge of the map and well hidden. He took out all the 4 Pz V Panther reinforcement, while they were moving on the wide fields seen on the right of the road. They did not return fire not seeing the firefly. The same happened to 4 Pz IV and 2 PzVI Tigers. 10 tanks bagged without any problem, by one Firefly, incredible! On the German side, one Tiger managed before being destroyed to shoot out 3 tanks, with a Firefly among them. A JGz IV did better shooting 2 Fireflies and 1 Sherman. In all 4 Fireflies out of 7 were destroyed, but the German paid a high price for them. To my feeling the Tigers did not put a fight as could be expected from them. Their dreadful ’88 was unable to find and kill the Fireflies and Shermans hidden as they were. More, the advantage given by the range of that gun was negated and the Fireflies took a huge advantage given by their hidden location and were able to engage successfully at long range the Tigers. Remember Richardson killing all the Panthers as they were moving toward him. I was really surprised and shocked to see all of them and some accompanying Pz IV being destroyed one after the other and not even seeing from where they were being fired on. I think that I am going to play it again in Wego. That way, looking again and again at the recording of the turn, I might be able to see what is going on. In RT, playing the German side I was rather a sitting duck than a Tiger and or a Panther. George MC having is own trouble playing his own scenario, I feel I can have some excuses for having had a complete defeat. My god, that was a fantastic battle George and Bil has to put all its competence to get through it and give us that wonderful AAR. Thanks to both of you Cheer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 I think you deserve some kind of medal for trying a scenario with that much armour in RT... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 @wombie, Yeah, I got the Complete Defeat Medal, not really the one I wanted to pin on my jacket. To be more serious, playing it RT get you really into the battle and is close to what one could expect in a battle. You can only catch some pieces of it (FOW) and you better make the right choice at the right time. The only complaint I have is that you can not be on the left, the center and the right area of the battle at the same time. So, you are always missing something that might be important for the outcome of that battle. That is why a small map in RT is giving to the player a definite advantage. Playing Wego and or RT will be an obvious choice when you are considering all these facts. Cheer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 @wombie That's an 'L' not an 'i'... Playing Wego and or RT will be an obvious choice when you are considering all these facts. Yep, an obvious choice to not play RT 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake_eye Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 @Womble, That's an 'L' not an 'i'... I think that my glasses have something to do with my complete defeat ! Cheer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 The Thirty Eighth Minute Wittmann has a spot on the right most of the three Fireflies at 548m... he fires three times, the first round bounces but the second and third penetrate, the third brews up the Firefly. Wittmann is becoming a Firefly killer, this is Firefly kill number 2 for him. Kister's Tiger gets hit by the center Firefly losing two crew members, the gunner and the loader. They back out of danger. Iriohn's Tiger fires and repeatedly hits the Sherman V blocking the main road... the Jpz on the road fired a couple of times as well missing both shots. Another obstacle removed from my route. All did not go my way unfortunately this turn as Warren's center Firefly fires on and kills a Pz-IV in the compound with my Tigers. Top image shows the center Firefly (Firefly 2) firing on my Pz-IV while Firefly 1 gets hit and penetrated by Iriohn's Tiger. This Firefly's status is unknown at the end of the turn as I lose sight of it after this hit. The current Blood Board.. at least I killed more than I lost this turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyberg Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Fascinating, and a great test of the historical veracity of this superb game. Brilliant screen shots as always. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 It's definitely a case of he who fires the first lives eh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 The Forty Second Minute I made a mistake and decided to duke it out with a Sherman III across the map with one of my Panthers. While every round from the Sherman III that hit bounced, my Panther missed every shot. However, there was obviously a hidden Firefly over there as well as my Panther is penetrated forcing the crew to bail right at the end of the turn, the tank is not destroyed, only abandoned. Not a good start for the Panthers. I have two Pz-IV sections attempting to flank the Fireflies on the next line as the Tigers begin to cross the field. The lead Pz-IV from section 1 his hit and destroyed by an unidentified shooter. My spotting was not very good this turn.. I need more infantry up front.. unfortunately they are still busy clearing out the enemy crews on the first objective. The current Blood Board: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Hmmm, not looking good for my guess Panther missing every shot ?! Remarkable - are they Green or somesuch ? Weapon mount penetration is usually a maingunKO - do you know or will you just stealthily re-man it later ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedorf81 Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Bill, As always very nice screenshots with efficient markings and to the point explanations. Me like. Three questions: 1. Would you please be so kind as to inform me which grid-mod you are using? 2. Can you provide us with an overall-picture? 3. What's your opinion on the uncanny PzkwIV loss-ratio? Bad luck, maybe? Or bad positioning (sorry, no offence intended ), or are the IV's already obsolete at this stage in the war? And if you succeed in not losing more then another two Tigers, then I'm in awe. (I'm playing Wittmann now and it feels like I'm gonna loose everything.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Panzer IVs are tin cans - this stage of the war for sure. Front hull is pretty beefy but the turrets are wafer thin... I'm currently going toe to toe with some Shermans and the PzIVs have to hit first or they die. The firefight they are in reminds me of opposing lines of infantry firing musket volleys. Who's nerve will break first... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 Who's nerve will break first... Yours :- P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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