sburke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 It's OK, we have an undersea city of non-Euclidean geometry that breeds enormous swarms of batlike creatures to absorb the blasts of the alien laser cannon if we make the requisite blood sacrifices to Cthulhu. Dick Cheney is his high priest on earth. Oh Great!! LLF you were not supposed to discuss the bat creatures! How many times do I have to talk to you about OpSec?! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 No, it's totally real. See, I have a link from the Interwebs that proves it! I am starting to think John's "highly placed government source is this guy. I remember seeing these things in NYC in the 1980s. He too just "had to get the Truth out, man" and followed the voices in his head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 oh great and he is from Phila. Well it isn't/wasn't me. I'm still wondering why Dr Who's time machine is in Syria. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I see JK is back with his Kettlerian woo and this time claiming extraterrestrial sources for his extraordinary claims. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kettlerian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well my lovely wife just happens to be a "reptiloid alien shape shifter" as well and I take great offence at this gross insult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Well my lovely wife just happens to be a "reptiloid alien shape shifter" as well and I take great offence at this gross insult. theres no way shes from south boston? I have a ex girlfriend that fits that description to a tee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Nah... Latvia... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I see JK is back with his Kettlerian woo and this time claiming extraterrestrial sources for his extraordinary claims. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kettlerian Damn how cool is that? I want my own urban dictionary page!!! Oh and Erwin, you are so busted when we email your wife a link to this page. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Fortunately, she has a great sense of humor... (I hope...) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I knew there was a reason why I keep JK on my Ignore list. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigduke6 Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Fortunately, she has a great sense of humor... (I hope...) She married you, didn't she? *rimshot* 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Apparently, Russia is sending two amphibious assault ships to Syria for possible evacuation of its nationals/protection of its assets. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9338572/Russia-sending-warships-to-Syria.htmlhttp:// I suppose it's not impossible that troops sent to assist in the evacuation or involved in guarding bases could become embroiled in a fight with rebels. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 hehe, since I started this thread way back, many things have happened. Ironic that now Russian marines are in fact being deployed to Syria to protect their interests. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Re Telegraph link: "Sorry We cannot find the page you are looking for." Is that quick censorship or...?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Typo in black_prince's linky poo with an extra 'http:/'/ tagged onto the URL Fixed: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9338572/Russia-sending-warships-to-Syria.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 According to this a Turkish Phantom has been shot down by Syria. I think this has just been reported so it may turn out to be a misunderstanding of some kind. With the surprises we've had from BF recently, maybe a Turkish forces module isn't too far fetched. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9349777/Syria-shoots-down-Turkish-fighter-jet.html Thankfully, the crew seem to have been recovered safely. PS-I tested the link this time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I heard that the Arab League is condemning Russia for supporting Syria, so I suspect they're desperately looking for a way out without appearing to betray their long ally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 AFAIK, the crew has not been recovered. Turkey is invoking article 4 to convene a meeting of NATO types. It worst, I could see a limited strike against Syrian AAA sites to get the message across. Syria has to know it's in no shape to be invaded, they can barely keep the rebels under control. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Unfortunately you appear to be correct. The initial reports which stated that the aircrew had been recovered were apparently wrong. Here is what I think happened (assuming that Turkey's claims that the aircraft briefly entered Syrian airspace in error and were shot down over international waters are correct) : -Syrian Air Force grounded or partly grounded due to the recent defection of the MiG 21 pilot. -Syrian air defence detects the Phantoms as they are about to enter or have already entered Syrian airspace. Permission/instructions are requested from higher command. -'Higher command' deliberates on the decision for several minutes. As there are no aircraft readily available to intercept and identify the intruders the decision is taken to open fire on the aircraft. -By this time, the Turkish aircraft have left Syrian airspace but are still within range of a SAM battery. The order to fire is obeyed and one Phantom is brought down. I don't know why there was no warning issued prior to the aircraft being fired upon but it is possible that attempts were made without success to raise the Turkish fighters. Perhaps they didn't use the correct frequency or the Turkish fighters, having made a navigation error, did not realise they were the aircraft being hailed. On the other hand, Syria does not claim to have issued any warning prior to engaging the aircraft. An alternative explanation might be that one of their SAM batteries was operating on automatic/semi-automatic mode and the parameters for engagement were set incorrectly. This would explain the lack of a warning issued (if indeed no warnings were given.). The other question that comes to mind is why was it necessary for the Turkish Air Force to conduct a radar test so close to what is essentially a war zone? Of course, there may be some technical reason of which I am unaware or a navigation error may have been made by the pilots. The alternative of course is that aircraft were on a reconnaisance mission, perhaps monitoring arms shipments to Syria. I'm not too sure what we can expect from the NATO summit. Probably nothing more than a stern, joint denunciation of Syria and a statement of support for Turkey. On the other hand, if other powers, frustrated by vetoes at the UN, wish to take some form of action against Syria, they aren't likely to get a better opportunity than this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Sounds like Poland '39 all over again lol... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Do the Turkish Phantoms also pack Vietnam-era HARM missiles? A little "Wild Weasel" action might be in order. Of course, the Syrian SAM guys are likely used to this from the good old days playing footsie with Israel in the Bekaa valley. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 If your talking Vietnam era then it would be Shrikes or Standards. I believe the Turks do have HARMs in their arsenal and they also have a number of precision guided stand off weapons such as the American SLAM and Israeli Popeye in addition to a Turkish produced cruise missile (although I'm not sure wether or not this is in service yet). I don't really see any military action happening as a result of this personally. What the Turks (along with their allies) might be able to do if they are smart about it is to use the credible threat of strikes in response to this incident to persuade Russia to halt weapons transfers to Syria and co-operate in tightening up sanctions on them as an alternative as well as perhaps establishing an internationally protected buffer/humanitarian zone inside Syria-although the last part is perhaps a little far fetched. It will be interesting to hear the Russian response to whatever comes out of this summit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai007 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 I would like to say that Russia might take this opportunity to join the international community in supporting real diplomatic and economic action against Assad, but I don't realistically see it happening. Russia's strategic interests are on the line here. If I were them, I would put 100% behind the rebels with a promise of still having their base when things are said and done. That way they look the part of the good guy to the world, and still maintain their national security needs. Putin could use the international brownie points at any rate after the 'election'. From what I have read, there is an air corridor through Syrian airspace that Turkey uses to fly to some of their possessions in the Med and that is where the initial airspace violation took place. Granted, they weren't transiting but doing radar training. All of this seems very shady to me. Hard to tell what is really going on through the mask of media propaganda. I think the comments about Syria's airforce being grounded after the defection are spot on. As I understood it, SOP for most modernish nations is to send a pair of eye balls up to meet, ID, and contact and snoopers in your airspace. I have no knowledge as to what altitude this aircraft was flying, so it's very possible for a radar training session they were right down on the deck. If they were at altitude though, how did the Syrians know it wasn't a transport or airliner of some sort. That could have been an even worse incident then it already is. My heart and prayers go out to the missing crew and their families. Hope they bring them home alive and well! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black_prince Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 My heart and prayers go out to the missing crew and their families. Hope they bring them home alive and well! x2 If Russia is presented with the option of either airstrikes against Syria or tighter sanctions including a ban on all weapons shipments they may accept this as the lesser of two evils. As you say though, Russia's strategic interests are stake and their co-operation in enforcing any sanctions regime may do some serious damage to their future relations with the Syrians. Therefore, they may respond to threats of airstrikes against Syria with increased support for the Syrian government in the shape of more advanced air defence systems. In the short term, to make any advanced new systems operational (and therefore a credible deterrent) would probably require their operation by Russian crews while Syrian crews were trained to an acceptable level of profficiency. In this way the potential for a very ugly scenario starts to become apparent. I think what happens next all depends on how important Syria is to the respective players in addition to how much they feel the situation can be manipulated to favourably affect domestic oppinion. Alot of what happens next will probably depend on the pesonalities of the leaders. I don't see Putin as a man who will be willing to back down on this. He has invested too much in his image as a macho strong man. Erdogan, for all of his skill at producing strong and at times shocking rhetoric, will probably be satisfied by some suitably conciliatory gesture by Syria, assuming that his domestic opponents (such as those in the armed forces) do not use the incident to whip up nationalitic outrage and portray Erdogan as a wimp. This is unlikely though as Erdogan has a lot more influence over Turkish media. The problem with Russia supporting the opposition is, IMHO twofold: 1) It still doesn't appear likely that the opposition will be in power in Syria any time soon. 2) There is no one in the oppositions ranks with the authority or credibility to be able to make and keep promises regarding Russian interests at some as yet unspecified time in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Russia, as any power with accolytes has to show they are loyal to their "friends". Logically, yes, they should dump Assad and show support for... whomever. But, logically, the US should have gotten out of Vietnam a lot earlier; should have dumped Karzai and his band of corrupt thieves year ago etc etc. It's interesting to think what would WE do if Syria were one of our client states that we had invested in for decades (anyone here consider Israel?). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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