Bartokomus Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 2 questions: 1) If the Co. Cdr has a radio, is alive and sitting in a house 200m from a Plt Cdr who also has a radio how can they not be in contact? To be clear none of the Plt. have contact with Co HQ but this is the most egregious and boggling example. No contact with the enemy yet either, btw. this happens frequently and i don't understand; best guess is bad batteries... 2) 1 Plt. has their mortars deployed, able to drop rounds, and is contact with the Plt Cdr. The FO i have cannot access the mortars (out of contact); does this simulate that the FO (a company asset btw) would have to go through the CO HQ to talk to the Plt Cdr. and their mortars? I can't tell what is being simulated and what i am missing. if this is simulation i just don't understand it! any help or clarification would be appreciated. Bart. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I can confirm similar experiences. Buggered if I know why, though. I watch this thread with anticipation... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes radio communication can fail for a period of a few turns. There is no way to tell from the UI but in my experience if there is something that makes no sense this is the reason. Just wait and see if it comes back. IIRC "Out of contact" means that there is no communications to establish an otherwise valid FO link. If the asset cannot be used at all it will be "denied". So there is some faulty communication to the Mortars but without more info I couldn't say where the break is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Ever see the tubes in those old sets? Its a wonder they worked on the battlefield at all... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 There is no mention in the manual of the reliability of the radios but historically they were quite unreliable in congested terrain. I suppose BFC has modeled this to an extent, but I'm not sure if the modeling actually takes the terrain into account. Read more here about the U.S. radios. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broadsword56 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Move the Co. Cmdr around a bit to some other locations on the map and see if the radio communications to the platoon come back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 does anyone have rl knowledge of how a FO worked if attached to a Co.? would he have to go through the Co HQ instead of directly to the Plt HQ? i don't understand why the bad comm links would affect the FO at all as the mortars are set up and in command of their Plt HQ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 does anyone have rl knowledge of how a FO worked if attached to a Co.? would he have to go through the Co HQ instead of directly to the Plt HQ? i don't understand why the bad comm links would affect the FO at all as the mortars are set up and in command of their Plt HQ... I am not really sure (don't have access to the manuals). But usually the FO (Vorgeschobener Beobachter - VB in the Wehrmacht) has direct radio contact with the Fire Direction Center (FDC) or B-Stelle of the artillery regiment/batallion. The FDC takes the fire requests and allocates the batteries and passes on the fire order. The fire-control unit (Feuerleitstelle) of the battery then calculates the parameters for the guns and passes these to the guns. Spotting begins now or firing if you use TRPs. This chain of command is responsible for the delays in calling fire in CMBN: FO - FDC - FCU - Gun (if you have been allocated the competency to use artillery - would take even longer if you have to request assets not allocated to you) So the FO would have only direct contact with the FDC and not with the company CP. In (modern) practice (real life) we often had at least one FO in the company CP or with the company commander to coordinate the FOs out with the platoons or squads/patrols (depending on priorities) - this FO would then be able to translate the fire request given by platoon leaders into requests running up the artillery chain of command (FDC ...). If the FO was allocated only on batallion level a platoon leader would pass the fire request through the company CP to batallion. So with this said, the FO would not be in direct radio contact with the company CP (although he might have a walkie-talkie) and therefore it could be, that CMBN gives a penalty to the FO to handle company assets. Since CMBN does not make a difference between a batallion/regimental FO connected to the mortars and regimental guns and a artillery FO assigned to the divisional artillery regiment/batallions there seems no such penalty for these (off-map) assets. But its pure speculation. maby BFC can enlighten us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 BTW maybe you should get FM 7-10 Infantry, Rifle Company, Rifle Regiment, 18 March 1944 to see how the 60mm mortar was intended to be used. Is available online google will lead you there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Found something after a quick read on FO deployment in FM6-20 Field Artillery Tactical Employment 39.a ... It is desirable to send out forward observers in the ratio of one to each front-line company or similar unit. Forward observers are controlled and coordinated by the artillery liaison officer from the direct-support artillery with the infantry (cavalry) (armored) battalion. All artillery observers coming forward to observe in an infantry (cavalry) (armored) battalion zone or sector report to the artillery liaison officer with that battalion, in order to insure proper coordinated employment of all observers and to exploit all means for observation. FM7-24 Communications in the Infantry Division 101 c (3) Battery commanders, battery executive officers, liaison officers, forward observers, and the fire-direction center are provided with FM radio sets with a rated range of 5 miles and preset for two-channel operation. One channel is reserved for fire-direction center operation and the other for operation in the battalion control net. Either channel may be used as an alternate for the other when congestion or jamming occurs. 105. Notes 3. When forward observers of reinforcing units operate in the zone of action of an infantry battalion, they coordinate their activities with liaison officers of the direct support artillery battalion but normally operate in fire-direction and control nets of their own battalion. 4. Observing personnel other than forward observers, operating and observing in the zone of action of an infantry battalion, operate in the fire-direction and control nets of their own battalions. They report and coordinate their activities with the direct support artillery battalion but observe for their own battalion. So it seems that all FO radios were on the artillery nets and didn't have direct connection to the infantry communication nets. the liaison officer assigned to the infantry battalion seems to have made the connection to the artillery net. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 There is no mention in the manual of the reliability of the radios but historically they were quite unreliable in congested terrain. I suppose BFC has modeled this to an extent, but I'm not sure if the modeling actually takes the terrain into account. Read more here about the U.S. radios. Well, there is a reference on page 97 of the manual to radios being "tricky things to operate effectively as distances increase." Whether this actually refers to radio reliably being modeled in the game, I dunno. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartokomus Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 thanks Winkelried, very helpful input 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Well, there is a reference on page 97 of the manual to radios being "tricky things to operate effectively as distances increase." Whether this actually refers to radio reliably being modeled in the game, I dunno. Distance and terrain effects are not modeled. However, there is a random chance of temporary radio failure. A unit may also lose radio comms for a period when moving and setting up in a new location. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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