No consumption of grenades?

[Knaust1]

I noticed that, when a squad launches grenades, in the ammo panel there is no reduction in the available grenades.

[c3k]

Knaust1,

I am willing to bet that you're watching this during a WeGo replay.

Take a squad with grenades and order TARGET about 8-16 meters away, in LOS. (One action spot.) This should be against open ground. BEFORE you click "go", take note of the grenade count.

Click "go". Watch the grenades fly. Count them. Subtract them from the initial count: that will be what is "stuck" in the grenade count.

This will show you that the grenade count in WeGo replay _is_ stuck. However, it is stuck at the proper count for the number of grenades which are left at the end of the turn.

Does that explanation make sense?

Ken

[Knaust1]

Knaust1,

I am willing to bet that you're watching this during a WeGo replay.

Take a squad with grenades and order TARGET about 8-16 meters away, in LOS. (One action spot.) This should be against open ground. BEFORE you click "go", take note of the grenade count.

Click "go". Watch the grenades fly. Count them. Subtract them from the initial count: that will be what is "stuck" in the grenade count.

This will show you that the grenade count in WeGo replay _is_ stuck. However, it is stuck at the proper count for the number of grenades which are left at the end of the turn.

Does that explanation make sense?

Ken

Exactly what I did....I noticed grenade number before launch...I noticed grenade number after launch...exactly the same

[womble]

I have to say I've seen 'consumables' getting used without decrementing the count. I've only noticed it occasionally with Rifle Grenades, and I had put it down to mistaken perception. I'll look more carefully in future. It certainly doesn't happen all the time though. I've had troops run out of grenades (rifle and hand) plenty of times.

[Cymru]

Does the ‘actual ‘ number decrease without being shown? In other words, do you think you still have grenades, when in fact they are all gone?

[beatmasta]

Or is it possible that the squad acquired some new grenades from nearby casualties?

[slysniper]

Knaust1,

I am willing to bet that you're watching this during a WeGo replay.

Take a squad with grenades and order TARGET about 8-16 meters away, in LOS. (One action spot.) This should be against open ground. BEFORE you click "go", take note of the grenade count.

Click "go". Watch the grenades fly. Count them. Subtract them from the initial count: that will be what is "stuck" in the grenade count.

This will show you that the grenade count in WeGo replay _is_ stuck. However, it is stuck at the proper count for the number of grenades which are left at the end of the turn.

Does that explanation make sense?

Ken

I thought he made this clear, the count is showing what you have at the end of the turn, of course this is only when the flaw is happening, which he claims only happens in WEGO playback.

[c3k]

Okay, let's try again. Try this, step by step.

1. Command phase: note the grenade count. Command an area target (red target line) to an adjacent, in LOS action spot.

2. INITIAL replay phase: note the grenade count at the beginning of the replay. Watch how many grenades fly and go "boom". (That will be the "boom" count.) Now note the grenade count at the END of the replay.

3. Keep replaying the same replay. Note the grenade count.

Okay, now we have 5 sets of numbers.

Step 1, grenades at command phase.

Step 2 a.) grenade count at beginning of replay.

Step 2 b.) the number of "booms" you saw/heard.

Step 2 c.) the grenade count at the end of the replay.

Step 3 This should be an exact duplicate of step 2. Replays shouldn't vary.

Step 2a and 2c will, probably, be identical. (That's a minor flaw.) However, step 2a will be LESS than step 1. How much will the difference be? It will be the number in step 2b, the number of "booms" you saw/heard.

So, step 1-step 2b = step 2a = step 2c

Let me know if I'm wrong.

Thanks,

Ken

[Knaust1]

well...to make things clearer and easier

when I looak at the WEGO replay

I see for instance

.30cal M2 ammo decreasing when fired

no grenade decreasing when launched

[RockinHarry]

I´ve not watched grenade expenditure count that much so far, but during some scenario testing in WEGO scenario author test mode, I observed a US infantry split team (can´t remember if it was the assault team), dropped half a dozen grenades on an empty (intact, but non occupied) german bunker without the grenade count going down. I suspect it was the "close assault" vs. vehicles thing in action and although one can see single soldier throw grenade animations, it obviously does not count vs. hand grenades.

Think after I had removed the bunker in question from the "unit target" (U1) list, it wasn´t assaulted anymore.

Sometimes I see grenade count dropped correctly AFTER the action phase (in the subsequent orders phase).

[c3k]

Knaust1,

Yes, rifle ammo count works correctly. But that's not what you raised. The grenade count does not SHOW the use of grenades. It shows the end-state; how many grenades are left. Internally, the count is always correct. In the UI, the count is correct in the command phase and at the END of the replay phase.

The game tracks grenade use. I've explained, in depth, how the grenade count is flawed during the replay. The game does not have an infinite amount of grenades. However, I've posted ALL this in an attempt to see if my understanding of the issue matches up with your observations. You have not verified, or denied, what I've described.

Is my description of the issue the same as what you are saw?

(RockinHarry: it seems that area target will allow the unit to use up to 1/2 of its grenades. I may be off on that...)

[Statisoris]

Wanted to add something about rifle counts that might be helpful to some people who don't know. One has to remember that AT rifle grenades are displayed differently than HE rifle grenades. AT rifle grenades are displayed as icons only in the special equipment display area and HE rifle grenades are only shown in the ammo count box area of the UI.

[Knaust1]

Knaust1,

Yes, rifle ammo count works correctly. But that's not what you raised. The grenade count does not SHOW the use of grenades. It shows the end-state; how many grenades are left. Internally, the count is always correct. In the UI, the count is correct in the command phase and at the END of the replay phase.

The game tracks grenade use. I've explained, in depth, how the grenade count is flawed during the replay. The game does not have an infinite amount of grenades. However, I've posted ALL this in an attempt to see if my understanding of the issue matches up with your observations. You have not verified, or denied, what I've described.

Is my description of the issue the same as what you are saw?

(RockinHarry: it seems that area target will allow the unit to use up to 1/2 of its grenades. I may be off on that...)

I will try it mate

[RockinHarry]

(RockinHarry: it seems that area target will allow the unit to use up to 1/2 of its grenades. I may be off on that...)

I haven´t made any explicit tests with short range (or any) area target yet, so I can´t tell, but assume you´re quite correct.

Just remembered some occasions during general scenario test play, observing the AI in action. I´ll definitely have more of a watch on grenade count in the future, but the only oddity is the "close assault" abstraction, which sometimes leads to wrong assumptions about hand grenade usage and "expected" count drop. Too bad, there´s nothing to be found in the game manual.

[Knaust1]

OK....done

Squad 3

Step 1 13

Step 2 12

Step 2b 1

Step 2c 12

Squad 1

Step 1 3

Step 2 2

Step 2b 1

Step 2c 2

Squad 2

Step 1 8

Step 2 6

Step 2b 2

Step 2c 6

Yes, rifle ammo count works correctly. The grenade count does not SHOW the use of grenades. It shows the end-state; how many grenades are left. Internally, the count is always correct. In the UI, the count is correct in the command phase and at the END of the replay phase.

You're right

I was wrong

[c3k]

Knaust1,

Thanks for double-checking.

Ouch, I wasn't "looking" for anything about who's right. I wanted to make sure that you hadn't found a bug which enabled infinite grenade use. So, let's just say my description was verified by your experience and that a new bug has not been uncovered.

(BF.C is aware of the grenade count issue.)

Thanks for bringing up an issue you saw and doubly so for sticking with it.

Regards,

Ken