New file at the Repository: Die Amis kommen ! (2011-08-03)

[Battlefront Repository]

July 17th 1944, time 06:45, weather with overcast and west gentle wind. Oberleutnant Muller with your 2 Kompanie – II Battalion – 1058 RI – 91 Luftlande Division, your orders from the regiment are to defend the Douve river fords and bridges, from the west bank. At least one battalion of the US 358th IR is known to have reached its departure line in front of your area from our increasing radio intercepts. Armor, has also been heard during the night close to the front line. Your task is to delay the “Amis”, the time for a Kampfgruppe with some tanks and mounted Infantry to rejoin you. You must deny, to the enemy, the control of La Rondehaye and Sainteny and avoid as much as you can heavy casualties. You must maintain 70% of your forces in a combat state, since your orders are to break contact during the next night and retreat to a new prepared, defence line 10 kilometers away. Jabos are for the time being not reported over our operation area and the overcast will remain for most of the day preventing and or rending difficult any of their attack.

More...

[De Savage]

Ah, 'been waiting for this. Thanks!

[Aragorn2002]

More German scenarios are very welcome! Thank you.

[snake_eye]

:cool:Thanks for having waited a bit longer than expected. I hope the result will be worth the delay.

I had done that scenario originally with a view of playing it only on the German side. However, I have thought that people might like to play it on the American side. Since it was not practical to have a German A.I, I have incorporated a H2H for the American and the German.

Why I did not make a German A.I ? for the simple reason that if you set an ambush, the unit involved, will stay on its ground till the end, unless you trigger a time for it to fall back and then it will not be at the moment you would like it to happen.

To be more precise, if BF could find a way to have the clock start, once the unit is committed in its attack and or defence, we, designer could have a unit leave the fight after a determined time, the count down beginning at the start of the engagement.

That way units won’t pull back before it is wished.

For the rest the game length was made for 3 hours and a bit more, as I had found that 150 minutes were just on the edge of what I wanted.

You will find advices for the Germans and the Americans in the designer’s notes.

Have a good time and let me know what you think of it.

Cheers

[handihoc]

Hi Snake-eye.

I've just completed Die Amis Kommen! and wanted to give you some feedback.

Firstly, a superb map. You must have put a lot of hours in on that one, and it's a real beauty, with some very challenging terrain features.

I've played some of your earlier scenarios for Shock Force, so I figured I was in for quite a treat here, and I wasn't disappointed - although I do have one or two reservations.

I was intrigued by the challenge you have set yourself in single player mode, having the AI attacking (a difficult prospect in itself) AND having it attacking over a river, forced to negotiate numerous bridges and fords. AI limitations being what they are, even though in CM they are far superior to any other wargame I'm familiar with, putting it on the attack in a long, complex battle and an extremely detailed, large map really does test it's capabilities.

***** SPOILERS BELOW!!!*****

Well, for the most part I was impressed and pleasantly surprised. The first two hours of gametime were really pretty tense and challenging. The US forces advanced in a quite intelligent manner and, towards the left side of the map in particular (Fords 1 - 4) mounted a convincing crossing and aggressive attack (although a Stuart rather oddly sat himself smack in the middle of Ford 4 and refused to move for the remainder of the battle, effectively stymying any further advance there. I assumed he'd been immobilised but the map review shows him to be in pristine condition, so I'm not quite sure what he was playing at).

So the most effective attack came over Fords 1 - 3, and headed for Wierderstandnester 2 and La Croix Pochon, occupying the former for quite a while before being repulsed by my brave pixeltruppen in the latter stages. The US almost took La Croix Pochon too, and made a push for La Ronde but by then they were too weak to have any real hope of succeeding.

The advance over the main bridge into the railroad station was a US disaster, though. My armour and ATGs had no problem picking off the US armour as it approached, with artillery severely punishing the infantry as it made its way in the open towards the bridge. A few forlorn infantry did manage to cross that bridge but were then systematically chewed to hell by my MGs and arty as they attempted to hunker down wherever they could find shelter.

So, up until this point, a huge amount of fun and a lot of tension as - although I expected to be able to win against an attacking AI - I was never fully certain, given the numbers set against me, and their ability at times to spot and engage my units.

Fantastic fun, too, putting those Nebelwerfers into action! It was the first time I've used them in the game and boy, they might be lacking in accuracy, but they are devastating! I actually felt sorry for the guys caught in their fire.

Three hours, though, was too much IMO. For the last seventy minutes the battle dragged. The AI was pretty much out of effective heavy weapons by now, and the vast majority of its infantry were in a severely bedraggled condition, whereas I was pretty much able to sit back and polish them off as they continued to come forward in dribs and drabs, twos and threes, etc. The AI just kept on sending them to their deaths - M20s carrying HQs, chewed up squads in dreadful condition... it showed no sense of command.

Eventually, with about an hour left, I was able to retake Wierderstandnester2, and although a few US TDs and Sherms remained and put me to the test, my Panther, backed by a STug and some 120mm arty, got the better of 'em with minimal damage to me.

But the US refused to give up, despite the fact that I now occupied all zones and the enemy had nothing useful to fight with. I was obliged to play on to the very end, including four min extra time. And as a reward I got only a Minor Victory!

Pretty stingy, I reckon, given the massive damage I inflicted, which I think you can see on the attached AAR.

My overall assessment: A fantastic map and challenging battle. Very enjoyable for the first two game hours, but too long after that. And I would suggest tweaking the victory conditions to enforce a US surrender much earlier. At the end they were useless as an attacking force, occupied none of the Victory Zones, but simply would not admit defeat.

One other point: it has no real effect on gameplay but the artillery for both sides comes in from the wrong direction. If you observe the streaks of falling shells, the German arty comes from behind US lines, and vice versa for US. It looks as though you have incorrectly designated friendly map edges.

I'm also sending you an email on a related note, so please take a look.

Good work, and many thanks for putting it out there for our enjoyment.

[snake_eye]

Hi, Handihoc, :cool:

First of all, thank you for having played that scenario till the end and for the compliments.

I shall try to answer the most frankly to your post and I shall try to lift the curtain on some choices I have made and why. But before, I want you to know that your comments about the last hour are damned right. However, that is a tricky last hour. If I consider it a certain way, I am right up with you, but if I think of it another way and that, is not the only one possible, the stakes are not the same.

I shall explain you why,in the spoiler’s addendum a bit farther down.

About the map:

It indeed took a long time to do, but a longer time, it might surprise some of you, to think of it. I thought of it, first time, when I read again some AAR and tactical reports about some fights in Normandy, from both opponents. Historical books dealing mainly on Divisions and even on Regiments action at the time, give a broad idea of what is going on. More detailed books dedicated to battalion and Company level fights permit to have a better idea of what the soldiers were facing and enduring. Very often, however, the feeling you get doesn’t fit clearly with the fight you are analysing, since the writers quite often simply copy facts and don’t use new information being now days available, specially since the ULTRA archives (The German code had been broken quite early in the war. Thanks to the Poles and the French intelligence and passed over to the British) have been made accessible.

Once, you get an idea of what was going on and how, you can begin to design a map, combining the ground features and the tactical possibilities that it could offer either in defence and or attack to either side.

If you design a map offering no interest in regards of the A.I move feasibilities you have to drop it, even if it is an historical and faithful scenario of the battle.

To summarize, the scenario battle should be faithful with tactical and historical background. The map should be similar of what was found at the time. But, all of this has to be mixed to produce something within the scope of the A.I of either side. Needless to say, if you are designing a H2H scenario, that doesn’t need to be done, since the map feature and the forces have to be like they were at the time. The player will make the difference by its playing ability in winning and or losing, independently of the chosen side.

About the German human player side:

I have chosen the Germans, since the map was designed with a defence in depth in mind.

In defence, you don’t need to have forces in great numbers. In attack, you usually need 3 times as much as the defender. That has been that way, right up to now. That is, when you can not use to the best the modern weapons available.

I was not sure at the beginning that it was a good idea. I was puzzled about the way the US A.I would react. In fact, I was very much surprised.

The axis defined for the attack were followed for most of them in an intelligent way. Even the F.O did their job convincingly.

BTW handihoc, you are right about the falling shells streaks. I had seen it, been surprised, but for some reasons, I have not thought of the friendly direction setting.

The Germans are on the West and the Amis on the East. That can be easily rectified in the Data setting found in the scenario editor. Please accept my apologies.

About the Stuart remaining in the middle of the ford :

It did happen during the testing once or twice at the most with that Stuart, but also with a Sherman remaining at Ford 1. For the Sherman, since it was an HQ one, I assumed it stayed there, because that was a normal tactical position in relation to the others. For the Stuart, I have no explanation.

****************************Spoilers******************************

The 3 Stuarts coming through the last ford (the one closer to Sainteny) usually made it through and were engaged by the elements of the German platoon positioned not so far away. I was often caught by surprise (playing elite) when looking to the right, I saw them being engaged. They seem to arrive very quickly.

I must say that engaging the Amis with the far left platoon, I was pretty much occupied.

I usually don’t occupy WN2, but for a sole F.O. That F.O is doing his job, with the mortars sighted on the exits of the fords, and later on, he packs up and rejoins La Rondehaye.

I am trying to avoid having troops deployed close to the fords. As a matter of fact, the US infantry once it deploys along the river berm and along the road is able to call mortars with efficiency.

I have my tanks engaging from the farther away that they can. I avoid again short distances. That is not the best way to use them. Read my designer’ notes about the German tactical use of tanks.

My tactical plan is to let the Amis come forward and just slow them down in order to create a bottleneck. Then, with mortars against the Infantry and the NebelWerfers when they become available, it’s only a matter of well choosing the F.O and the mortars available.

It is essential to avoid the destruction of the tower and building observatory near the railroad yard. Without good observers, you can say good bye to these assets.

The Nebelwerfers are not very precise, but they are a saturation weapon causing a lot of damage. The railroad bridge alongside, the road one near the RR station was destroyed in few testing.

Don’t drink a soda (that doesn’t make any good to your laptop) when the volley comes down, you are certain to jump up in your chair, the sound is so terrific. It seems that all your plates in the kitchen are falling down. Let people around you, know about it, or put your earphones on (lower the sound!)

About the last hour playing time:

Things are not that easy to interpret. Considering one point of view, you are damned right and that was also my thought for quite few battles being fought and tested. Then I have discovered that I could change it, by mounting a counter attack and force a US surrendering, or at least end the battle, by a tactical move, negating their ability to keep on fighting for their objectives. Since I needed more time, I changed the duration from 2 hours, to 2 hours 30 and finally to 3 hours and a bit more.

That longer time was necessary for trying to retake WN 2 and to be able to move a counter attack against the left US flank with elements of Kampfgruppe Bayerlein and with,if possible, all elements of Kampfgruppe Kessler.

That C.A should rush through the bridge of la Meauffe road (in front of WN3), all the way up of the road and then, it should spread on the left and take by the rear the US survivors. Usually the game ends at that time.

Don’t forget to check that you have some troops on WN3 to get points for occupying it.

I did not do a counter attack at the beginning, looking and fighting mostly on the left of the German front, where things were sometimes on the verge of collapsing. That depends, naturally, of the move being made. As a matter of fact, the Germans should stay, mostly, in defence to avoid taking heavy casualties. Their only moves during the first two hours should be to retreat to new defence positions, before having too much pressure on them. In the last hour, considering the casualties being inflicted to the Amis and especially with the NebelWerfers, a counter attack can be considered, as written above.

About the victory setting:

The Minor victory can be felt as a stingy result, but believe me, it is not if you are putting yourself in the boots and better in the mind of a German officer of that period.

Having for quite a number of them fought on the Russian front, they were accustomed of inflicting huge casualties to the red army both in men and in materials to no effect. They had to retreat once more, again and again, nearer and nearer to Germany’s boarders.

Therefore, we could only consider a total victory, if the grounds being regained could be kept. That was almost never done, for most of the battles, that is, for most of the last war 44’s, 45’s year’s battles.

In the scenario’s briefing, we are informing the player that the Germans should retreat in order, the following night, to new defence positions farther back, after having delayed the US forces. The orders at the time, in Normandy, were to delay the US advance, sometimes at all cost, while inflicting heavy casualties. But a wise officer knew that the order at “all cost” meant the annihilation of its combat forces and that a tactical leapfrogging retreat preserved its combat forces and afforded a costly advance to the enemy.

Therefore what is considered like a minor victory in the German side is actually a pretty good victory, considering the amount of casualties inflicted to the enemy in men and materials. However, the impossibility to keep the ground against the Americans, having the possibility to replenish their materials and their men losses in a matter of days and therefore having the capability to renew their advance, meant that the Germans had only one option, that is to retreat to a prepared defence position for a new stand, before a new retreat in order once again.

Needless to say, each time, the German combat forces (in the scope of a Battle of Normandy scenario) were less than they were before and finally evaporated being replaced by an had hoc battalion, made of only 2 or even one company and or of a kampfgruppe made of disparate elements of remaining infantry and tanks. They were only able to prevent the crumbling of the area

To summarize:

That last hour, if all the Amis forces are destroyed and or unable to move anymore forward, should be employed to mount a counter attack against them. The front being stabilized the Bayerlein and Kessler Kampfgruppen should be used to do it.

That way a mopping of the area can be envisaged and it will end very quickly the battle.

About the US artillery A.I :

I have been amazed to discover how effective it has been at some moment.

La Rondehaye village was pounded through all the length of its street in order to neutralize a StuG III, I had moved there. Believe me it was not a mortar barrage.

At the beginning of the game, the smoke curtain that can be seen masking the Amis advance, give sometimes good results and not that many at other times.

Sainteny town hedges were pounded and houses destroyed. Units lying nearby were in shock later on. One or two Pak 40’s teams were forced to leave their gun being hence destroyed and or abandoned.

About the main bridge disaster:

The US forces along that axis, have a helluva time. However depending on the German reaction, quite a few elements are able to cross it and slip away, along the berm road parallel to the RR yard.

I agree that they won’t be able to mount a dangerous attack. But they are a sting in the German front. However, they are able to move forward again, if the Germans are moving some of their remaining forces over there away.

I think that the counter attack could be brought against them. Not frontally and or on their flank, but from their rear as explained above.

Beware about the tanks on top of hill 30 –WN2. They have a perfect LOS on that area.

************************Spoilers end****************************

In conclusion, I can say that the A.I has made considerable progress and that this scenario could not be what it is without these improvements. Battlefront really deserves credit for it.

If I had a wish I could ask for, it will be to have one day, some specialized triggers for actions to be done at a defined elapsed time from their triggering.

That way a retreat and or a counter attack could be defined at a set time after having been triggered. This is a designer dream. But when we are looking back to the first Combat Mission : Beyond overlord, the dream might become reality in a lesser time that it took to offer us Battle of Normandy.

Finally, I would like thanking all of you for your impressive scenario downloading. If I design scenarios, it would not be the same if these were not played and enjoyed like it seems they are. Every time, I am trying, the best I can to bring them to you and believe me, if you were not appreciating them, how could I.

Cheers

[handihoc]

Hi Snake-eye,

I take all your points on board, and it's very obvious you gave a hell of a lot of thought and planning to this scenario and the possible variations of tactics available to the German player, whilst also doing all you could to stay true to its historical background.

My review was based purely on a single run of the battle. I did think briefly of launching a counterattack in the last hour, but decided against it because I just couldn't be sure there wasn't a TD or two, or a hidden bazooka team, still lurking somewhere out there. I had taken a fair amount of casualties, lost my MkIV and a Stug, suffered some damage to the Panther and another Stug. I also didn't have a large enough number of infantry to feel confident enough to risk them. Nor was I really certain until the last twenty min or so that you didn't have yet more US reinforcements coming on at any moment.

So I played safe and simply hung on to the victory locations.

In light of your explanations, I can agree that my Minor Victory was probably a fair one. It just seemed at the time to be counterintuitive to my own assessment of my win.

Yes, the noise of the Nebelwerfers pouring in, and the subsequent explosions, is literally earth-shaking. The sound of hellfire and thunder pounding down upon you!

And I too was impressed by the US artillery AI. It spotted and hit me several times with a high degree of accuracy, and caused numerous casualties. The AI generally has improved in leaps and bounds and I've no doubt will continue to be worked on and improved. Triggers would definitely be a big plus - we can but wait with bated breath...

OK, thanks once again for you dedication to making such great scenarios for these Combat Mission games.

[snake_eye]

"Die Amis kommen!" scenario

Who thought that the A.I was sluggish?

First of all, I have corrected in the scenario editor, the data about the friendly side, which was not correct and rightly pointed out by Handihoc in its post. It should be West for the Germans and East for the US forces.

I must say that having corrected the data, I was curious to see if it made a change in the playing attitude of the A.I

From what you are going to read, one might assume that it did change something. For me it really did, since from all the test play done, things never happened that way. The A.I, I can say, took me by my pants! That is perfectly right for the units, but also for the mortars and the dreaded artillery shelling.

In that scenario, one could assume that having designed the attack axis and knowing the type and amount of the units being engaged, I should have fought with an advantage against the Amis. Sure, I had it, but I did not expect that they could break through Hill 30 – WN2 and around La Croix Pochon in a pincer move and that right after having shelled heavily and accurately La Rondehaye. At least two houses were levelled to their basement. From the platoon protecting the company HQ and 2 mortars teams, only a few soldiers completely haggard remained, unable to put a fight. All that happened within 30 minutes in the last hour and a half remaining. I saved the game with 1 hour playing time remaining, since, very frankly, being taken out of balance, not by the attack by itself, but by its determined and aggressive advance toward its objective.

I have forgotten to tell you that I had retreated, earlier, the MG teams from la Croix Pochon to a safer position in the bocage a bit farther back.

It was a very good insight, since a shelling started on the farm and the barns as they were getting away. They got to their new position unscathed.

As can be seen in one of the shot, a PZ IV and a STuG III are engaging the Amis in the vicinity of La Rondehaye with caution. Tanks are still on the summit of hill 30-WN2.

I am hoping to be able to engage them from Sainteny with the Panther, I moved urgently there.

Against the Infantry coming from la Meauffe bridge and progressing along the railroad yard, I have a SPW Hummel keeping them at large. For how a long time? At least the tanks seem to have been destroyed.

Since the Kamfgruppe Bayerlein has lost for the moment 2 StuH 42 and 1 StuG III out of 3, the remaining ones, being already engaged, they won’t be able to leave their positions.

The Kampfgruppe Kessler could try to move toward la Rondehaye, but that doesn’t seem to be a wise option with the tanks overwatching from Hill 30. The Panther should try to smoke some of them, before I can attempt that move.

To summarize with one hour left, I have lost La Rondehaye and La Croix Pochon, but I am slowing down the advance toward the railroad yard. On its left (seen from the East) the road following the river and coming near the houses not so far away from ford 4, is partially checked. It seems that the tanks are not trying to resume their advance.

If you encountering such dilemma in your fight (having corrected the friendly side data) let us know how you got out of it.

Cheers

Here after the 7 shots starting at 01:32 remaining time left, then 01:20, 01:20, 01:15, 01:11, 01:07 and the last one at 01:05

[snake_eye]

Last shots.

Look at the shells streaks coming, now from the right friendly side of the Germans. That is the West side. Thanks to Handihoc. I had seen them before coming from the other side and did not react !

[sburke]

:cool:Thanks for having waited a bit longer than expected. I hope the result will be worth the delay.

I had done that scenario originally with a view of playing it only on the German side. However, I have thought that people might like to play it on the American side. Since it was not practical to have a German A.I, I have incorporated a H2H for the American and the German.

Have a good time and let me know what you think of it.

Cheers

Von Kleist and I have launched into this monster with me on the American side for the first time. I am not reading any of the rest of the thread to avoid the spoilers, but I have to say. Nice Map! Looks like it is gonna be a b**ch to assault. I will try to compile an AAR for review, but some initial comments.

My starting units are mostly locked into place, that isn't bad I don't mind a planned jump off point and Von Kleist and I can always edit the initial placement if we want to explore alternatives. What is a bit more difficult, but also appreciated is despite the briefing I am not exactly sure where the follow in forces will enter the map. What this creates for me on this initial play through is the feeling of a company commander who didn't get enough time for a full briefing. So I am pushing a probe forward but not sure if I will be fighting with my own company or as the lead in a full battalion assault. I have to say, I actually like it. FOW on my own side, how cool is that?! The map is big enough that this could have severe implications. I could push forward and be hanging out on a limb when I find the next company to join the assault is too far away on my left to give support. My opponent also has to keep that in mind as he can't commit too much force to counterattack and leave himself exposed on the other side.

Last item - All other scenarios I have played have been about 60-70 turns. Resupply hasn't been much of an issue. With 3 hours and a big map, I think my opponent and I are going to find keeping ammo resupply up is going to be a bit more important.

Thanks for all the effort, 15 minutes in and we are both really absorbed. Hard to believe one scenario is going to generate more play time than a lot of games I have passed through.

[snake_eye]

Von Kleist and I have launched into this monster with me on the American side for the first time. I am not reading any of the rest of the thread to avoid the spoilers, but I have to say. Nice Map! Looks like it is gonna be a b**ch to assault. I will try to compile an AAR for review, but some initial comments.................................................................

Thanks for all the effort, 15 minutes in and we are both really absorbed. Hard to believe one scenario is going to generate more play time than a lot of games I have passed through.

Hi Sburke,

You are right for the H2H. I should have indicated where the US and Germans reinforcements should arrived precisely.

Actually the US map only shows you 4 blue axis arrows, without any details about the units, which might come. It is the same on the German tactical map. There are only yellow triangles showing the possible pathways that the US forces might use.

The only excuse I have would be to say, is that, this is part of the FOW (fog of war). In reality, the units involved in some kind of reinforcement would know which axis is going to be followed. That would be done as long as the enemy would permit it.

A Company commander however did not have at the time very precise details at his disposal, but rather broad indication shown on a map. More, if the objective of attack and or defence were clearly seen on the map, it was often difficult to find a right path to leading to them on the ground.

HQ had a tendency to see high grounds as an objective with, more than often, a total disregard of the way to get to it, having not looked at the ground leading to it with the attention that it would required.

It looks like I have acted like a HQ officer more at ease with blue and red grease pencils, than moving on the ground!

That will put you in the mood of a ’44 month of July in the bocage, trying to find out what is going on, dodging, cursing and fighting, just for these red and blue arrows on a map, done by that ******guy in HQ

More seriously, I shall be very interested to read your AAR.

I can only wish the both of you a good time playing it and if you have a draw at the end I might not be surprised. It will be a German victory, considering that they have stopped temporally the US forces. But the Amis will be on their objectives the next day without a fight, the Germans having retreated during the night.

For the Germans to retreat without losing too many forces was the objective. What else could they do, fighting in july 1 against 3.8 US forces (that ratio taking in account uniquely the men!). It was even, higher than 1 to 6 in the area of the 6th June landing in the first days, before the Germans brought reinforcement from Brittany and south of France..

Cheers

[sburke]

Hi Sburke,

You are right for the H2H. I should have indicated where the US and Germans reinforcements should arrived precisely.

I am not sure I agree, I actually think this is a very interesting. I doubt there is a way to have variable location arrivals in a scenario, but it would be interesting if you had to take into account issues like that in formualting a plan. One of the reasons I made sure not to follow the thread is I was afraid it might give that information away. Granted I will only have this the first time I play it, but if I only get one shot at it I intend to make the most of it.

Actually the US map only shows you 4 blue axis arrows, without any details about the units, which might come. It is the same on the German tactical map. There are only yellow triangles showing the possible pathways that the US forces might use.

The only excuse I have would be to say, is that, this is part of the FOW (fog of war). In reality, the units involved in some kind of reinforcement would know which axis is going to be followed. That would be done as long as the enemy would permit it.

A Company commander however did not have at the time very precise details at his disposal, but rather broad indication shown on a map. More, if the objective of attack and or defence were clearly seen on the map, it was often difficult to find a right path to leading to them on the ground.

HQ had a tendency to see high grounds as an objective with, more than often, a total disregard of the way to get to it, having not looked at the ground leading to it with the attention that it would required.

It looks like I have acted like a HQ officer more at ease with blue and red grease pencils, than moving on the ground!

That will put you in the mood of a ’44 month of July in the bocage, trying to find out what is going on, dodging, cursing and fighting, just for these red and blue arrows on a map, done by that ******guy in HQ

More seriously, I shall be very interested to read your AAR.

I can only wish the both of you a good time playing it and if you have a draw at the end I might not be surprised. It will be a German victory, considering that they have stopped temporally the US forces. But the Amis will be on their objectives the next day without a fight, the Germans having retreated during the night.

For the Germans to retreat without losing too many forces was the objective. What else could they do, fighting in july 1 against 3.8 US forces (that ratio taking in account uniquely the men!). It was even, higher than 1 to 6 in the area of the 6th June landing in the first days, before the Germans brought reinforcement from Brittany and south of France..

Cheers

Thanks, have started trying to catch up doing a narrative of the attack so I can follow my own impressions at various points. So far I think we are both really enjoying it, though I just got my heavy artillery into play so Von Kleist may not feel the same way now LOL.

[snake_eye]

I am not sure I agree, I actually think this is a very interesting. I doubt there is a way to have variable location arrivals in a scenario, but it would be interesting if you had to take into account issues like that in formualting a plan. One of the reasons I made sure not to follow the thread is I was afraid it might give that information away. Granted I will only have this the first time I play it, but if I only get one shot at it I intend to make the most of it.

Hi Sburke,

Sure, the lack of information about the exact spot of arrival of the reinforcement is closest to reality. That puts you, as I wrote it, deep into the game and with the FOW implication in situations, not so far from reality when situation awareness is primordial. :cool:

Reinforcement can only be set to come in one spot. If you are bringing A.I reinforcement, they depend of the setup chosen and since you can make up to 5 different plans, the player can be caught off guard. That if the ground features permit it.

To achieve that, you have to choose a setup somehow not in the LOS of the enemy. That way depending on the A.I plans you can go straight, left or right from it and if the ground features allow it you can surprise the enemy. but that is not easily done.

Impatient to read, from both sides if possible, your AAR,.

Cheers

[von Kleist]

I will send you my side of the AAR as well, although it might not be with the superb attention to detail as sburke:)

[snake_eye]

That will be fine for me. The battle being seen from both sides provides a very good insight and is invaluable for improving the way a designer is managing the A.I plans.

Cheers