duckEfuzz Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 imagine my annoyance when my perfectly prepared assault went awry due to the inability of my mortar rounds to land anywhere near where they were called to be. despite many reloads and replays they just wouldnt land where needed. so time for some more QB testing. after much fun dropping rounds from the sky, i think i have solved it. If the FO and chain of command up are all green (inexperienced) then no matter how hard you try it aint happening. with a few weak links the time taken to call in fire is increased dependant on how many weak links (5 mins to 11 mins??) but the rounds do seem to end up pretty close. but with all weak links the artillery feel that the party is happening upto 300m away!! leadership doesnt seem to play a role but experience is the key. please test and pull my theory apart! thank you . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Be nice if the fix was this easy. BTW, I had great fun a few days ago. I put a full battalion of 105s, with a section of 81s thrown in for good measure, on a patch of woods I strongly suspected of harboring Germans. It was just a short area bombardment with overlapping circles that covered the whole patch, but it was sheer hell on earth for three minutes. When it was over and I occupied the patch, I counted 39 Germans either dead or seriously wounded, mostly dead. The sole ambulatory survivor was shot down as he tried to make his escape. My losses: zero. You can't beat a good barrage for doing the heavy lifting. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveP Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 leadership doesnt seem to play a role but experience is the key. I did my own test some time ago and found this to be true as well. However, you might want to check out one more thing. What I found is that with lower experience, the FO (or HQ spotter) needs to have a much larger area of LOS around the target, while a higher experienced FO can succeed with a very small are of LOS around the target. So, green is OK if the guy has really a large LOS zone. At least that's what I found. Still, I try not to use anyone below regular. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vark Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I'd have thought that even an inexperienced MFC could eventually drop the bombs on target, it might take time and remove the element of surprise, but surely a greenhorn can adjust incrementally, for deviation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah, the artillery module definitely needs tweaking. Hope this is addressed in the patch. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I have found this also - but what happens if you only have green or inexperienced units available to direct fire? Then you are stuffed basically. What frustrates me is when you are given a FO unit and they are green - they are next to useless if this is the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckEfuzz Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 well i thought i had it but while testing had 1 vet comp hq and a vet FO. the FO had 6 mins delivery time but failed to hit the target each time by 50m whereas the HQ had 8 mins but hit it bang on. more testing required, i know there's a secret in there somewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I thought it was all about the spotting rounds? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckEfuzz Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 how about this, a FO is only as good as the battalion HQ. 1 vet comp hq , vs 1 vet FO plus 1 green Bat hq comp hq , bang on with vet mortar team , really tight area fire. vet FO tight area but slightly off due to green Bat hq. so the FO is basically eyes for Bat hq, try using a green FO with green Bat hq and vet mortar teams, as a guess before i try, i think tight area but 200-300m from target. of i go again! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 how about this, a FO is only as good as the battalion HQ. 1 vet comp hq , vs 1 vet FO plus 1 green Bat hq comp hq , bang on with vet mortar team , really tight area fire. vet FO tight area but slightly off due to green Bat hq. so the FO is basically eyes for Bat hq, try using a green FO with green Bat hq and vet mortar teams, as a guess before i try, i think tight area but 200-300m from target. of i go again! I don't know how many times you ran the tests, but it'll have to be quite a number, with some pretty stringent controls over other variables before you can isolate the effect of experience at various points in the chain... I've had significant variability in quality of effect even from one fire mission to another with the same assets involved, under combat conditions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckEfuzz Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 any hq unit can bring spotting rounds in as long as they are on the map and in LOS of target. Green units have penalties to target area so if you have complete green force best to use all arty on opening barrage (first min) otherwise keep more exp HQ's on LOS to target and even green FO's/HQ's can bring um in.( i'm presuming Exp HQ's need to be further UP chain of command, e'g not platoon HQ's) My brain hurts now! time for bed... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 how about this, a FO is only as good as the battalion HQ. 1 vet comp hq , vs 1 vet FO plus 1 green Bat hq comp hq , bang on with vet mortar team , really tight area fire. vet FO tight area but slightly off due to green Bat hq. so the FO is basically eyes for Bat hq, try using a green FO with green Bat hq and vet mortar teams, as a guess before i try, i think tight area but 200-300m from target. of i go again! I don't think this is how it works. To test this out put a green FO and an elite FO under a green Bat HQ and see if FOs have the same or different delay times. I haven't tried this but I suspect the elite FO will have a shorter delay time regardless of the Bat HQ because AFAIK any unit calling in indirect fire is assumed to be communicating with the firing unit directly rather than funneling the request through a higher HQ. You could also test this out by seeing if the FO can even call in fire when out of C2 with the Bat HQ. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I don't think this is how it works. To test this out put a green FO and an elite FO under a green Bat HQ and see if FOs have the same or different delay times. I haven't tried this but I suspect the elite FO will have a shorter delay time regardless of the Bat HQ because AFAIK any unit calling in indirect fire is assumed to be communicating with the firing unit directly rather than funneling the request through a higher HQ. You could also test this out by seeing if the FO can even call in fire when out of C2 with the Bat HQ. C2 status will not affect the ability of any spotter to access artillery. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 C2 status will not affect the ability of any spotter to access artillery. So am I wrong or am I right that the Bat HQ has nothing to do with the effectiveness of the fire an FO calls in? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckEfuzz Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 a little more testing before work, yes i'm pretty much obsessed now. what i have found is that my saved game where i cannot hit on target, the factor involved is motivation. My green FO in/out c2, other HQ's near/far etc, the only thing that allows me to fire on target is when my FO has OK motivation. When he is -1 nervous, the rounds are miles away. This would make sense according to the manual whereas FO under fire is less accurate. My only issue now is when i used Vet FO with OK motivation with 2 teams of mortars, 1 mortar team vet the other green i presume both with OK motivation (off map) and in that case 1 area fire was good the other was 30m or so away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckEfuzz Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 should i laugh or cry? after much much much testing i zoomed into my FO and discovered he was facing away from aim point. faced him properly, selected mission and guess what, BANG ON TARGET. doh doh doh!!!!! also although you may be able to order an area barrage, if your spotter cant REALLY see the area (check with target ) then aim is way off, thats why my guy couldnt hit a thing , he was centre of a wood and altough could order barrage he couldnt see it, the grey sight line meant that altough the team could see, the actual observer was behind a tree!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Ye gods! This game takes some getting used to, doesn't it? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slysniper Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Ye gods! This game takes some getting used to, doesn't it? Michael IT SURE DOES. Arty is the one thing that has given me nightmares as to what is going on in the game mechanics. While playing it is great fun when you have a devastating barrage hit the enemy, which at times can have pin point accuracy. but just as frustrating when 10 minutes later you cannot get them to group their shots anywhere near the enemy. I think there is good observations here as to some of the likely issues. All I know is I do like the fact that it is hard to count on if you are going to be able to get a good arty strike or not. It makes the game feel more realistic and brings the fun factor up for me anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby7 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 It seems like requiring the spotter to be FACING the target is a bit excessive. Could there at least be an option to disable the facing req. I'm finding the game unplayable with the arty issue. No matter how hard I try, an occasional barrage will land on the opposite side of the map, there is no reasonable explanation regarding experience or facing to justify this. I'm still having a blast with inf. only maps though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duckEfuzz Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 its not the case that you have to be facing, but just be aware that the placement of your actual spotter is the key, make sure he can definately see the target and of course if he's forced to run in panic dont expect the rounds to be where you want them!! if he's forced to move then maybe cancel orders would be the best choice. i went back to my savegame where the rounds wouldnt hit where i wanted, and by applying these principles achieved complete artillery success! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.