phil stanbridge Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I was under the impression some 251/9's carried some canister rounds - did they not make it into the game? Or was it a different model? I could have seriously done with some of that in the last mission 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted July 11, 2011 Share Posted July 11, 2011 I was looking around for canister rounds also. I remember them from CMx1 days. US 38mm cannons found on the M8 Armored Car and Stuart light tank had canister shot also, I'm just not sure about its historical availability. I want to play with it though! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 forget post, wrong topic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger33 Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Oh yes, I remember the first time I saw a canister round wipe out an entire squad in CMBB. From then on I always picked the vehicles that carried it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Canister would have been ideal in bocage and close quarters fighting. I have read that it may have only been the 'c' variant of the 251/9 that carried it and I'm not sure if that model is the one we are using. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 Well, I don't know about cannister use by the Germans but I have found a reference to the use of 37mm cannister by the USMC on Guadacanal on 21st August 1942. Leaving vagarities of supply and inter-service jealouses aside, there doesn't appear to be any obvious reason why Stuarts in Normandy in june through August 1944 shouldn 't have had access to cannister rounds. I am sure someone who knows about this will be along soon to put us straight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted July 12, 2011 Author Share Posted July 12, 2011 Yeah - it was definitely in CMBO and CMAK but I haven't seen any reference to whether it was used in Normandy. Apparently something had to be fitted to the gun muzzle before they could use it, which is where the 'C' variant of the 215/9 came in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted July 12, 2011 Share Posted July 12, 2011 I seem to recall that Cannister rounds did not make it into CM until CMBB. Hated being on the receiving end of that stuff. The game at that point did not allow for cover with regards to Cannister. Your men were just as likely to be cut down when in a heavy church, as out in the open. Someone on the boards here called it a "swarm of angry bees." I'm looking forward to how it's modelled in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Just came across this, its the only thing I could find in 20 min search. Anyone willing to research the mentioned tank battalion further? Got to get off, busy at home. http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/world-war-ii/417/US-37mm-Ammo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Canister was used in the 37mm AT gun(M3A1), and both models of the tank guns(M5A1 and M6) used in the M5 tank, M3 tank, and M8 Greyhound. From the American Arsenal pg 266: Canister, M2, as the designation implies is little more than a can filled with approximately 122 lead balls which are imbedded in a resin matrix. The canister is used primarily as tank armament against personnel. The shock of discharge ruptures the case and the canister leaves the gun with a muzzle velocity of 2500 ft per second. The case bursts within 100 ft after discharge...[further explanation about the powder used.] No mention about dates used but I'm almost positive it was used since the U.S. entered conflict in 41. I'm not positive but I could have sworn I saw the canister round in CMBO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 BF never added canister to CMSF and I'd bet it's low on the list for CMN, mostly because all those pellets need to be tracked with ballistics. It'll put out 122 simultaneous physics objects per shot, which is probably more than the number of rounds in the air at any one time in many CMN fire fights. A platoon firing these is going to be pretty heavy and i don't think this area is super optimized, the GAU-8 on the A-10 in CMSF could slow some weaker PCs if I remember correctly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 BF never added canister to CMSF and I'd bet it's low on the list for CMN, mostly because all those pellets need to be tracked with ballistics. It'll put out 122 simultaneous physics objects per shot, which is probably more than the number of rounds in the air at any one time in many CMN fire fights. A platoon firing these is going to be pretty heavy and i don't think this area is super optimized, the GAU-8 on the A-10 in CMSF could slow some weaker PCs if I remember correctly. Well, I don't think they have to model 122 projectiles, it's more like an exploding shell but with a directional spray pattern. It would have to be abstracted like they do for artillery explosions. They don't track every piece of shrapnel, do they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 I was just somewhat surprised it didn't make it in - the 251/9 with plenty of canister rounds is lethal, and a much better fighting vehicle than one without. They are not all that clever with the 75mm HE in bocage, and they get toasted quite easily by infantry with rifle grenades and small arms fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemuelG Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Yeah - it was definitely in CMBO and CMAK but I haven't seen any reference to whether it was used in Normandy. Apparently something had to be fitted to the gun muzzle before they could use it, which is where the 'C' variant of the 215/9 came in. The 'C' refers entirely to the 251 chassis-variant the gun was installed in. 9s only come in C and D variants. Cs in Normandy are very unlikely. The short 75 was at this point at the very far end of the line as far as production priorities go. It was a case of: "what do we do with all these virtually-useless guns now we up-gunned our Panzer/SPG fleet? Let's biff em into HTs and scout-cars then call it a day eh? Who cares if they'll be grossly overweight? Moar gunz." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statisoris Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Just came across this, its the only thing I could find in 20 min search. Anyone willing to research the mentioned tank battalion further? Got to get off, busy at home. http://www.historykb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/world-war-ii/417/US-37mm-Ammo Upon further searching I found this. If these two bits of info are to be trusted, it means 1) Most if not all tanks in that division had 70% canister shot onboard 2) They are documented as being deployed and engaged during CM:BN time period. I'm sure if this division carried so much canister then others had to be using it in some quantity also. http://www.trailblazersww2.org/units_attached_tanks.htm 735th Tank Battalion Activated on 10 January 1943 at Fort Lewis, Washington, under Lt. Col. Ralph Alexander, commanding. Committed on 15 July 1944 in Normandy near Sallen. After breakout, fought at Angers, Chartres, and Reims. Crossed the Moselle in early September and became embroiled in fighting around Metz. Joined fruitless assault on Fort Driant in October 1944. In November, supported 5th Infantry Division's drive into Metz and reduction of forts still holding out. Relieved elements of 778th Tank Battalion in Saarlautern east of Saar River On 17 December. Deployed northward to join fighting in Ardennes beginning 21 December. Remained in Luxembourg until February 1945, during which month the battalion conducted limited offensive operations against Siegfried Line with the 87th Infantry Division. Reached Rhine near Koblenz 13 March and crossed 25 March on rafts as part of the 87th Infantry Division assault. Dashed across Germany, reaching Saale River on 13 April. Crossed the Weisse Elster near Brockav on 16 April and went onto defensive. I need canister ... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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