John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I thought I had all this C2 stuff sorted but apparently I haven't... I'm playing Bois De Baugin and three mortars are out of contact for everyone. The three mortars in question are all within 30m of Captain Carlson the company commander of F company who has a radio. This has been the case throughout the scenario. On closer examination, I realise that all the platoon HQs of F company have a little red cross next to F company on their display so I assume that the problem is simply that Captain Carlson is out of contact with his platoon HQs (and, in fact, everyone else). But if he has a radio and so do the platoon HQs, why is he out of contact? I thought that posession of a radio was all that was required. What am I missing here? This situation has persisted since scenario start and the good captain is in good order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 A couple things to check for: 1. Do all the platoon HQs still actually have their radios? Meaning the radio operator isn't a casualty and the radios are shown in the GUI? 2. The radios only work when HQs are stationary, not while moving. Radio comms usually are made a few seconds after ending a move order. Your platoon HQs definitely need to be stationary to reach higher command via radio, and therefore also to call in arty and mortars via radio. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 One thing not explicitly stated in the manual and not shown at all in the UI is that radios can fail in the game. This shows up as an inexplicable missing link that lasts two or three turns. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Well that's good to know. Thank god for beta testers dropping hints or we'd all be flailing in the dark. not explicitly stated in the manual and not shown at all in the UI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 To be fair it shows up as a bafflingly absent radio C2 icon. I believe a failed radio link is not a permanent state of affairs though, so if it persists for the whole game as mentioned above, or remains the same when reloading the mission again there may be something else going on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Crowley Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The three mortars in question are all within 30m of Captain Carlson the company commander of F company who has a radio. If the mortars are within 50m of an HQ shouldn't they be in command, as per the manual? One thing not explicitly stated in the manual and not shown at all in the UI is that radios can fail in the game. This shows up as an inexplicable missing link that lasts two or three turns. To be fair it shows up as a bafflingly absent radio C2 icon. This is a fairly vital piece of information, the absence of which hardly helps with understanding a fairly opaque C2 system. It needs to be officially 'inserted' into a FAQ or somesuch as, presumably, the manual will not be updated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I can't recall or find any statement from BFC that suggests random equipment failures in radios are modeled. Radio links can certainly be interrupted by movement, casualties, damage, etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 A couple things to check for: 1. Do all the platoon HQs still actually have their radios? Meaning the radio operator isn't a casualty and the radios are shown in the GUI? 2. The radios only work when HQs are stationary, not while moving. Radio comms usually are made a few seconds after ending a move order. Your platoon HQs definitely need to be stationary to reach higher command via radio, and therefore also to call in arty and mortars via radio. Don't thinks that's it. One platoon has lost its radio but the rest of the company have the little red x on their display. They're all in a wood at the moment and I was wondering if terrain has an effect. However, the forward observer has been able to call in G company's mortars and off-board artillery. So the problem seems to at Captain Carlson's end... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 One thing not explicitly stated in the manual and not shown at all in the UI is that radios can fail in the game. This shows up as an inexplicable missing link that lasts two or three turns. Now this is interesting. It does just look like Captain Carlson's radio isn't working. However, he still has the radio icon and it's lasted the whole game so far (thirty-odd turns). Could Captain Carlson have been issued with a duff radio? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 If the mortars are within 50m of an HQ shouldn't they be in command, as per the manual? They are within Captain Carlson's command. Should have said. He can bring in mortar fire from these three mortars (but he's at the back and has nothing to shoot at except some unthreatening looking flora and fauna). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 They are within Captain Carlson's command. Should have said. He can bring in mortar fire from these three mortars (but he's at the back and has nothing to shoot at except some unthreatening looking flora and fauna). How long have the platoon HQs been stationary? Do the mortars belong to the same company? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 How long have the platoon HQs been stationary? Do the mortars belong to the same company? Yeah, they're the same company. It says "out of contact" rather than "denied" so its definitely a contact issue. Not sure how long they've been stationary but if it's a movement issue should they also be out of command? Haven't ever noticed it being an issue before although I may not have noticed units being out of command in the heat of battle before... However, the company forward observer is currently accessing the off board artillery and I'm pretty sure he accessed the other company's mortars earlier on (although I could be mistaken). He can currently access the off-board artillery but is "out of contact" with his own mortars. He, too, is out of command. So as far as I can see, it can't be a problem at his end otherwise he should be "out of contact" with the off-board arty, not just his own. The link must surely be broken at the other end? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Don't thinks that's it. One platoon has lost its radio but the rest of the company have the little red x on their display. They're all in a wood at the moment and I was wondering if terrain has an effect. However, the forward observer has been able to call in G company's mortars and off-board artillery. The radios issued to platoons—when they have radios—are weak, limited range affairs. They are easily blocked by trees or buildings. The radios FOs have are much more powerful. Can the FO call in Co. F's mortars? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley Dick Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The only thing I can say to help is to try and map out the chain of command and see where the link is broken. I've lost radio operators and had my entire plan fall all to hell before due to some overzealous artillery firing for effect without so much as a single spotted round being called over the radio. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 However, the company forward observer is currently accessing the off board artillery and I'm pretty sure he accessed the other company's mortars earlier on (although I could be mistaken). He can currently access the off-board artillery but is "out of contact" with his own mortars. He, too, is out of command. So as far as I can see, it can't be a problem at his end otherwise he should be "out of contact" with the off-board arty, not just his own. The link must surely be broken at the other end? Puzzling. Maybe Cpt. Carlson is taking a nap? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Puzzling. Maybe Cpt. Carlson is taking a nap? Michael Quite. It's all a bit complicated but what I can be certain about is... FACT: F company's FO can contact off-board artillery. FACT: F company's FO is "out of contact" with F company's mortars. FACT: F company's FO is out of command (along with everyone else out of visual range with Captain Carlson - But apparently the platoon HQs have weaker radios so lets not dwell on that and stick with the FO). CONCLUSION: Link is broken at Captain Carson's end. Captain Carson is in good order (and is clearly in visual contact with his mortars) and has a radio icon. So either his radio is broken (and has been sice secenario start) or some outside fact is effecting it. Buggered if I know what though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Sorry, "Carlson". Better get his name right for the court martial... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Buggered if I know what though. It might be the game is buggered. Why not sent BFC a saved game file along with an explanation of what you are seeing? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 The radios issued to platoons—when they have radios—are weak, limited range affairs. They are easily blocked by trees or buildings. The radios FOs have are much more powerful. Can the FO call in Co. F's mortars? Michael Different types of radios and terrain effects on radio signals are not modeled. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Yeah, they're the same company. It says "out of contact" rather than "denied" so its definitely a contact issue. Not sure how long they've been stationary but if it's a movement issue should they also be out of command? Haven't ever noticed it being an issue before although I may not have noticed units being out of command in the heat of battle before... However, the company forward observer is currently accessing the off board artillery and I'm pretty sure he accessed the other company's mortars earlier on (although I could be mistaken). He can currently access the off-board artillery but is "out of contact" with his own mortars. He, too, is out of command. So as far as I can see, it can't be a problem at his end otherwise he should be "out of contact" with the off-board arty, not just his own. The link must surely be broken at the other end? After a movement it takes a while for the platoon HQs set up their radio's, so if they are out of visual range and radio is the only form of communication they will be out of command. It is hard as it is run and talk while not getting shot, let alone using of those clumsy WW2 radio's. FO's are bit special I believe (or there was a bug). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 After a movement it takes a while for the platoon HQs set up their radio's, so if they are out of visual range and radio is the only form of communication they will be out of command. It is hard as it is run and talk while not getting shot, let alone using of those clumsy WW2 radio's. FO's are bit special I believe (or there was a bug). Yeah, but that FO is the thing. He can contact the off-board arty but is clearly out of contact with the good captain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Are the mortars the ones from Carlson's Company (4th platoon, I guess, if it's a standard US leg infantry coy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 Are the mortars the ones from Carlson's Company (4th platoon, I guess, if it's a standard US leg infantry coy. Yep. But remember everyone who is out of visual with Capt. C (i.e. everyone EXCEPT the mortars) is also out of command. So I'm sure this is a radio issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Where is the 4th Platoon (Weapons) HQ? (It begins the scenario mounted in a jeep.) Even if you had good radio links, this wouldn't entirely correct the problem you are encountering with the mortars (i.e. "out of contact" to spotters), as positioning them next to the Company HQ does not fully restore their access to the "artillery net", it just gives them "in command" status for morale purposes and allows the Coy HQ to spot for them directly (and via a loophole would allow their own Platoon HQ to access them if the Platoon HQ is in contact with the Coy HQ). They do not get to "steal" the Coy HQ radio for fire missions from FOs/other HQs. Easiest way to partially fix the situation would be to either co-locate the mortars with their own Platoon (Weapons) HQ or park a vehicle with a radio near all three mortars. Not sure what is going on with radio links between the FO/platoons and the Company HQ, but I just loaded the scenario and it is not a problem that is present by default. Do you have a save? If so, PM me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 4, 2011 Author Share Posted July 4, 2011 I shall check all that out later (as I'm supposed to be working right now). However, you have confused me "artillery net". I thought that having a Company HQ with a radio next to the mortors should mean that those in contact with that Company HQ could spot for them. Sure its always worked before. Certainly never had this "out of contact" thing before. However, Company HQ is out of contact with eveyone not in visual for ALL PURPOSES (ie spotting for arty AND C2 c&c) so it still looks like Capt. C can't work the radio. Are we certain faulty gear isn't modelled? Hmmm, if it's a bug then I suppose that is faulty gear. That's pretty Zen... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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