Bolt Action Garand

[gunnergoz]

Nothing too dramatic could happen: a few burns at most. The bullet would go through the grenade without it exploding.

Or it might just blow the muzzle end of the rifle into the next county. First thing I was taught was never to interfere with the progress of a round down the barrel.

[argie]

Maybe, but very unlikely. That's why they put bullet traps (in essence, a piece of metal in the bottom) in the grenades for using them with regular bullets, if not, the bullet just went through. The grenade itself is very loose in the end, as to be expelled just for the gas charge of a blank.

[gunnergoz]

Argie - The ordnance ammo inspection manual (TM 9-1904) describes the ammo to be used with rifle grenades as being without a bullet.

CARTRIDGE, Rifle Grenade, Cal. .30, M3.

General.

This cartridge is used in cal. .30 Rifles, M1, M1903, M1903A 1, and M1917, for discharging antitank rifle grenades. This cartridge must not be used in lieu of the cal . .30, M1909 Blank Cartridge in automatic weapons, nor should it be fired in the direction of personnel.

Visual identification.

This cartridge may be identified . by the absence of a bullet and by the 5-petal rose crimp in the mouth of the case.

Components.

The cartridge consists of a cartridge case, primer, and propelling charge, having no bullet. The complete assembly weighs approximately 246 grains .

The case is the same as the standard cal. .30 case except for a cannelure located about t/4 inch from the mouth A wad is seated immediately above the cannelure after the propelling charge has been inserted. A drop of red lacquer is applied to the wad, and the mouth of the case is closed by crimping in the shape of a 5-leaf rosette. The cartridge is first loaded with a charge of 5 grains of black rifle powder, then with a progressive-burning small-arms powder.

Exterior ballistics.

The cartridge, grenade, cal. .30, M3, is loaded to obtain a grenade velocity of 165 feet per second at 5 .5 feet.

Having a bit of trouble finding WW2 US rifle grenades launched with ball ammo. If you can help point me in the right direction, it would be appreciated.

[argie]

I never said otherwise. The bullet trap grenades were developed quite recently.

I was pointing out that a muzzle breach because there is a loose grenade in the end of the gun is so unlikely that they figured out later that just adding a piece of hard metal in the bottom of the ordnance was enough to make it work.

Sorry if I was unclear.

Today, both methods are used. The problem is now if you mix some AP round with the regular ones, or a 'traditional' rifle grenade with one with bullet trap. Again, you end with a pierced grenade, maybe a few burns, but nothing more.

[hoolaman]

Nothing too dramatic could happen: a few burns at most. The bullet would go through the grenade without it exploding.

Are you talking about WWII era grenades? The M9A1 HEAT rifle grenade has an inertia firing pin in the back and if a real bullet hits that it is lights out for sure. To be clear I'm not talking about the gun exploding I'm talking about the grenade detonating in your face.

[MikeyD]

Wasn't there a conversation earlier about modern Euro armies and rifle grenades? From the conversation it seemed they were in the inventory, officers got a little instruction (maybe), but never got any training. Like those stielgranates slid onto the muzzle end of German anti-tank guns, they were considered a catastrophic accident waiting to happen.

[argie]

Interesting.

If that thing hadn't any security device, like the opposite of a bullet trap, that is, a piece of hard metal to deviate a possible incoming bullet, for sure it was something pretty dangerous for the intended use.

The pin itself is not dangerous, as the bearing you can see represented in that diagram, was intended to keep it in place and off center from the detonator, until it was at a safe distance. If the bullet pushed it, it will not hit the cap.

Anyway, the bullet has to hit exactly in the detonator to ignite the charge. I bet there is some sort of conic hard piece somewhere there to avoid it happening.

[sburke]

As a side note, has anybody actually seen U.S. Infantry use the "66mm HE" rifle grenade in the game yet?

I've had squads pop off their AT rifle grenade a few times, mostly at enemy infantry in buildings, but I have yet to spot a squad using an HE rifle grenade, even though squads usually start a scenario carrying 3.

I've also checked ammo loads at the end of scenarios, just in case I missed something, and all my squads still seem to be carrying the 3 they started with...

Sit down son and let me tell you the tale of Otto the sniper. He would vouch for the use of rifle grenades...if he uh weren't.. well.. dead.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96469&page=23

[MikeyD]

Doing a quick look on the web it seems rifle grenades became pretty popular with insurgents (or whatever you call them) in the Balkans. Used them to take pot-shots at civilians and peacekeepers on a regular basis. Most of the current Youtube rocket grenade videos are of Russian SKS semi-suto rifles fitted with a U.S.-style rifle grenade launcher. Some guy in his back yard in God-knows-what country launching rifle grenades just for fun.

[Glukx Ouglouk]

Wasn't there a conversation earlier about modern Euro armies and rifle grenades? From the conversation it seemed they were in the inventory, officers got a little instruction (maybe), but never got any training. Like those stielgranates slid onto the muzzle end of German anti-tank guns, they were considered a catastrophic accident waiting to happen.

I know that rifle grenades are still in active use in the French army at least and are actually used in combat. I don't know about other armies - but basically, I think it boils down to either using rifle grenades or under-barrel grenade launchers, each with their pros and cons, with most armies going with the under-barrel launchers nowadays.