Destroyed tank = no obstacle?

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

Played Barkmanns Corner and my Panther was able to destroy several Shermans rolling down the main street. Thats ok. Problem is, that panther stopped first Sherman and next one, right behind him was destryed seconds later. BUT the round went through first Sherman like through Swiss cheese! Destroyed tank should be static obstacle not Swiss cheese!

Is this correct? Have you observed it too?

[Loki]

I have seen this and in the same scenario you mentioned. I had taken out 5 Shermans on that stretch of road.

[De Savage]

I had one magic bullet in that scenario. One shot from Panther penetrated first tank and hit another tank behind the first one. And yes, both were operational, but after single shot two tanks destroyed. Amazing!

[roadiemullet]

I set up a QB against the AI Germans vs Germans on that open map with the hill in the middle with the trees on the hill (rubbish description I know) and had a Tiger shoot from around 1K my mortar HT in the side blasting straight through into the side of my JagdPz IV that just happened to be driving past. With all the trees around and considering the range it was an insane keyhole shot. Im not sure which of the two the Tiger was aiming for - my static mortar HT or the Jagdpz innocently driving along

[roadiemullet]

Oh yeah the Tiger had only just pulled to a halt as well just to emphasise how sick that shot was

[Fūrinkazan]

Destroyed tanks should be an obstacle. I think it's the case in CMSF. I have seen destroyed vehicles taking hits and protecting vehicules behind.

I have seen a Panther shot go trough an half track without problem and finishing it's course on the ground 50 m behind.

In CMSF, there was a screen of 2 Syrian tanks destroyed from the flank by one single shot.

It happened in reality, i have been reading it about 2 tanks destroyed by one 88 mm shot 2 Stuarts if i remember well.

[Jonny(FGM)]

I believe we had official word from BF on this that KO'd vehicles offer inf cover but not vehicles

[Polo]

As far as I know:

- Wrecks are obstacles for small arms, not for tanks guns (this has been told by someone, somewhre in this forum)

- I have also seen AP rounds going through armored vehicules, so I guess one round could kill two vehicules.

Polo

[ClarkWGriswold]

Destroyed tanks should be an obstacle. I think it's the case in CMSF. I have seen destroyed vehicles taking hits and protecting vehicules behind.

And that's exactly why dead vehicles DON'T offer cover in CMBN. The AI is not smart enough to know that what it's shooting at is behind an obstacle. So, you have the AI pumping round after round into a dead tank, trying desperately to kill the live one sitting behind.

It would be great if this behaved like it does in real life, but it's apparently very difficult to fix the AI to handle this sort of circumstance. So, the best solution was to have dead vehicles "transparent" to tank/gun fire.

[Fūrinkazan]

If it's an AI problem i understand. But i feel it was a cool thing introduced in CMSF. It's quiet unrealistic when you see a column of vehicules destroyed like that, by shooting through transparent tanks.

And that's not justified against a human player.

[Bastables]

Yeah It's jaring especially when small arms fire is bouncing off the tank and tanks have to drive around a wreck, yet I(tank) can shoot through dead veh.

Even odder when my Sherman shooting a PIV kills a intervening PIV, shoots again with the second round passing through the first dead untargeted PIV finally killing the targeted PIV.

[Praetori]

I recently played a QB where one of my tanks killed a tank by shooting "through" an already knocked-out APC. A few seconds later it tried to, with its main gun, kill what I assume was the dismounted crew of said tank and the shot instead went "boom" inside the disabled APC shielding the position.

Multiple rounds were fired against the inf/crew and they all hit the already knocked-out APC with hit text and some nice explosion as a result. It all seemed quite odd as two shots previously just went straight through (as the intended target in that case was a tank).

[gunnergoz]

AFAIC, destroyed vehicles should block all fire. Even with the 88 we are not talking about an Abrams 120mm main gun, whose APFSDS can go through two T-62 class tanks...if double penetrations were commonplace in WW2 we would hear of many more of them. So apart from the one in a million fluke where a Panther round goes through two adjacent M5's, I'd say it is generally more realistic to have destroyed vehicles block both LOS and LOF.

[ClarkWGriswold]

I'd say it is generally more realistic to have destroyed vehicles block both LOS and LOF.

That would be my preference too. Smoking, dead vehicles always block LOS. I'd like to see it changed so that all dead vehicles block LOS. This would have some unintended consequences (such as a vehicle higher up on a hill behind a dead vehicle not having line of sight), but it would be better than shooting through dead AFVs, in my opinion.

[Fūrinkazan]

That would be my preference too. Smoking, dead vehicles always block LOS. I'd like to see it changed so that all dead vehicles block LOS. This would have some unintended consequences (such as a vehicle higher up on a hill behind a dead vehicle not having line of sight), but it would be better than shooting through dead AFVs, in my opinion.

Same for me. That's the case in CMSF and i don't know why this was changed in CMBN.

if it's a problem for the AI, well, i don't expect the AI to be as smart as a Human player so...

But when i play against a human player, i think it's more realistic.

Of course double penetrations were very rare, i just put this to say that it happened in real life.

[Redwolf]

It would be too difficult to make the strategic AI (computed opponent) be able to deal with this.

Obviously you cannot make the TacAI deal with it at all - since moving tanks back and forth in an attempt to shoot around a dead vehicle would move it in unrealistic manners (e.g. too far to the front and KAZING).

For real-time (l)users it would also be a problem.

[whako]

I have a problem with this as well. Playing Barkmans corner just made me feel like Rambo. Every shot hit first time, every shot passed through numerous vehicles to penetrate the one directly behind it. It made the whole scenario seem unrealistic to me.