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Am I missing something? Spotting in the TF Raff Crossroads Battle


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I've been playing and loving Normandy since I got it last week - when I can fit it in around my work schedule. Been a few adjustments from the CMx1 games, but haven't run into anything I couldn't eventually figure out - until now.

In the TF Raff training Campaign, in the first battle, the Crossroads, the game manual instructs the player to first send the Scout team, and later an HQ unit, up to the second floor of the chateau, to the Observation Post objective area. Once there, the manual states that these units should be able to see some of the German units near the crossroads, and that the HQ should be able to direct the fire of the 60mm mortar that you are supposed to set up in the courtyard nearby.

I haven't been able to even begin to figure out the indirect fire system, because apparently my units up on the second floor of this building can't actually see anything. Their LOS (I've checked from both of them) extends only to the first major hedgerow, the one where the Base of Fire objective area is. Beyond that, it is blocked entirely, as far as I can tell.

To the best of my knowledge, the units are in the right place (the second floor) and facing the same way - see the first image attached - and yet they apparently can see almost nothing beyond the first field - see the second image.

Am I doing something wrong? Is there some command I am unaware of? Some change in the game after the manual was printed? Can I put the guys up on the roof or something? I'm sure this is something I'll smack myself in the forehead over, but for now it's driving me nuts. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Their line of sight toward the enemy position from that point is spotty, but they should have sight to some of the critical points, such as the clump of trees to the left where the gun might be, the right edge of the stone wall, and the edge of the bushes just past the crossroad. Try moving the pointer around a little more - the spots are small, but they're there.

Also, from the second pic it looks like your artillery option is grayed out. Do you have your mortars deployed nearby yet? Once you do, pull up the artillery menu and use one of the targeting options there, it might make finding the visible areas easier.

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When you get your mortars, place the HQ unit in the second story. Make sure the mortars are deployed. Click on the HQ unit and select the artillery tab. Try aiming a little more to the right of where you are trying to get LOS in your picture. Aim for the cross road and see if that works for you. I was able to hit the cross road from that position with my HQ and mortars. You might not have LOS on the left side because of some of those tall trees in the bocage.

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Also, from the second pic it looks like your artillery option is grayed out. Do you have your mortars deployed nearby yet? Once you do, pull up the artillery menu and use one of the targeting options there, it might make finding the visible areas easier.

The unit he is using to acquire LOS in that picture are scouts and they will not have access to the artillery menu. I don't think he has his mortars on the map yet in that picture.

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No artillery yet in the pics I posted, as this is just the scout team, not the HQ unit. I'll have to try again with the HQ and see what I can come up with for spotting for the mortar. I have gotten tiny glimpses of clear LOS when swinging the line around, but they hardly seem worth it.

I can understand the idea of the taller trees blocking the LOS in some directions, but to have virtually no LOS at all despite being on the upper story doesn't seem like much of an observation post.

I have played through the scenario several times, putting the HQ unit up there as well - they can't seem to see anything either, no matter how long I leave them up there or move them around.

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I think I know what happened.

As with another training scenario, a late-in-development change to how foliage affects LOS (namely, made them block LOS more effectively), made observing from a couple of positions more difficult than it was when the scenarios were originally made.

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That building isn't that great as an observation post but you should be able to see the most of the length of road behind the low wall to the left of the cross roads and some bocage near some trees by the far bridge. Both of those can, in my experience, be worthwhile mortar targets at some stage of the game.

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I never followed the tutorial just got on and played it...last campaign battle was a walk over...german forces destroyed in 20 mins....still it is a tutorial campaign...the first mission was the hardest...but superb flanking by a squad wiped out the German attack for me...

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VERY glad I' m not the only one with that LOS problem.. I agree nobody forces you to follow the tutorial.. But if you decide to do it finding such problems leaves you with the uneasy feeling of doing something wrong or missing something..

I can now play the scenario with no regrets..

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I have been doing some testing to better understand what the manual means by "quality LOS" as a key factor in indirect fire success. It's certainly a big adjustment from CM1. One thing I have learned is that the experience of the HQ is a big variable. The company CO, being a veteran, will get accurate mortar fire even when having LOS to only a very small area around the target. Any of the regular HQs need to have LOS to a much larger area around the target, or the mortar fire will go wrong. I don't think the quality of the mortar crew is important, but I haven't really been able to test that.

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I noticed this problem too. When playing the demo, I never used it as an OP. Instead I put my mortars in the field to the left of the manor and had HQ set in the middle of the hederow with great LOS.

When I got the full game I tried to follow the manual's tutorial in case I missed something in my self-teaching (came directly from CMx1). The manual's suggestion of the manor as an OP at first sounded like a "why-didn't-I-think-of-that" moment but I got the same crappy LOS everyone else had and I quickly went back to my original observation setup.

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VERY glad I' m not the only one with that LOS problem.. I agree nobody forces you to follow the tutorial.. But if you decide to do it finding such problems leaves you with the uneasy feeling of doing something wrong or missing something..

I can now play the scenario with no regrets..

The reason I'm not following it is because A; I play CMSF and B; I don't have aprinter to print it out...

I will follow the manual once my steelbox turns up...see if I do any better following their advice..

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I think a lot of this may have to do with what people are trying to accomplish with the mortars. I think the tutorial assumes that people will prioritize first on AT guns and secondly on MGs, and on nothing else. If so, the instructions do work (at least in my experience). If you want to use the mortars to take out other enemy assets, the building location does have very limited LOS.

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Interesting, Wodin, how one can have different experiences with the same campaign. My experience was that the first one was easiest: but I deviated from the manual by moving everything up the left flank, instead of fighting through hedgerow country. Yes, I think the LOS with the HQ in the building problem threw me off, and made me take a different tack (These are "training" scenarios, so in essence I missed out on training to fight through hedgerow.

I found the second scenario a near thing.

The third I am just finishing. Yes it is a romp, but a fun romp. I will probably need 45 minutes to clobber everthing, but I am moving very deliberatively, with almost no casualties, and trying out things--like blasting through hedgerow.

I am playing on Warrior. The relative spotting is just simply brilliant. Well done. Well executed. I did not play CMSF, but even if I did, I think I would still be amazed at seeing the results in a WW2 tactical situation that I am so familiar with.

And the "mortars of death".....wow, given that I bet Battlefront looked at this issue of their effectiveness closely, I am much more respectful of that weapon now.

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On the first (crossroads) scenario, I did OK for most of the battle with the mortars in the manor courtyard and my spotters upstairs in the manor house. But once I secured the farm, I double-timed that platoon's mortar team to the far hedgerow and got them a direct LOS onto the objective -- they had just enough ammo left to obliterate the AT gun and the units along the road, leaving the way open for my armor/infantry juggernaut to hedge-hop briskly down the main roadway and right side of the map -- total victory.

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I finally played the scenario not caring for the tutorial. I used the shermans as FO (I did not know it was possible) after I knocked out the Atg.

The precision of p

Mortars is VERY different depending, probably, by FOs and the sir LOS.. Anyway the mortar directed by the HQ on second floor of observation post missed the target by 20 meters... I even tried to adjust the mission.. No way.. They were firing short of intended target.

I found too easy getting st martin' s farm and at the end it was a total victory with only 5 casualties on my side.

At the end I moved everyone forward and I forgot to leave someone in the overwatch position: I did not get the points for controlling it!

Nice scenario.. Just do not try to do exactly what the tutorial suggests

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