Baneman Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 As I finished my first game of the Closing the Gap Scenario, I had knocked out 4 of 5 Shermans. Imagine my surprise when in a desperate attempt to wrest the VL's back from my men ( I imagine ), the AI sends the 4 crews to take me on. None of them had an SMG, only Colt 1911's. Imagine my amazement when they not only ran a couple of hundred metres, losing only 1 guy total, but they then proceeded to outgun my infantry for a couple of turns before being suppressed. Granted, on the flank where 3 crews attacked, I only had 1 team and a schreck crew ( who had an MG42 too though ! ). Now while I can accept the "Crews taking the guys who killed their tank prisoner" if they happened to be in the way of their escape and suchlike, the AI needs some looking at if it's using crews as assault infantry. I was playing on Basic Training level, but I didn't think that makes the AI "stupider". Screenshots : 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Gutsy, but not very realistic. Fluke or feature? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I believe that's problem that comes with AI plans set in the scenario editor. When a certain group is set to attack something, then everyone in the group tries to do so, even if its just a tank crew without their tank, because since their tank belonged to that group, they do aswell. One could observe that in the first video AAR already, and I have also experienced it in Closing The Gap, when a tank crew did a suicidal charge across one of the bridges that was firmly held by an infantry squad + their Platoon HQ, yet they even managed to wound one of my guys slightly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cull Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Hmm. This came up previous after people saw one of the video AAR previews. IIRC a Sherman crew bailed out and then, rather than running for cover, actually attacked/advanced toward German infantry in the treeline. Rokko's AI plan theory makes sense, and if that's the case I hope they address it in a patch. Seems it wouldn't be too tough to simply vehicle crews "non-aggressive"; I'd even rather see them automatically break when exiting vehicles due to enemy fire and stay that way, if need be. There's virtually no case that I can imagine where a vehicle crew would (or should) do anything but avoid contact as much as possible, especially if they've taken any WIA/KIA (except maybe the odd case of "beserk" status). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leakyD Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Crew asssulting w. pistols only? That's pretty damn funny.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 The problem is that as they bail out there in panic and run away. But if they recover after a few minutes they will attack again...this time with mighty pistols and SMG's. To fix such strange behaviour the bailt out vehicle crews should panic and later dissapear and be counted as MIA. Vehicle crews historically dont acted as infantry after bailing out. Sure, under extrem conditions they may joint the infantry but this is as possible like a M10 crew leaving the vehicle and enter a building because they panic during a artillery strike... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 The problem is that as they bail out there in panic and run away. But if they recover after a few minutes they will attack again...this time with mighty pistols and SMG's. To fix such strange behaviour the bailt out vehicle crews should panic and later dissapear and be counted as MIA. To be fair, a WIA is a form of combat loss, whereas dismounted tank crews were not really losses (unless WIA or KIA in the process) for they could easily go back to the rear and pick up another Sherman from ordnance reserve stocks. I say they should be counted as surviving troops. Their damaged/destroyed AFV is already counted in the win/loss column so why double count the crew as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rokko Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Well, the way it is now they actually ARE counted, since they get killed in the course of the battle 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 A even better idea gunnergoz... Running into hords of totally badass tank crew rambos that attack your Tiger tanks with their pistols is just so absurd that this should be fixed. While playing the "Closing the gap" scenario i had them attack a PSW with pistols...i mean are they Rambo or what ? I would switch my fanatic Waffen-SS troops anytime for thos crazy bunch of fanatic US tank crews...the war would be over in June 1944 for sure. I mean, give them some real weapons and they will punch through normandy straight into the Reichstag ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Johnston Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 To fix such strange behaviour the bailt out vehicle crews should panic and later dissapear and be counted as MIA. They should just stay wherever they are and hide - I think it should be simple enough to have a flag which says "bailed out crew - ignore all AI plan move orders for this unit." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 From what everybody is saying about the Rambo tank crews, maybe we should just dismount them from the Shermans and let them lead the infantry assaults. But to tell the truth, I can see how scenario scripting could lead to something like this but there needs to be some balance to it so that, once dismounted from a disabled AFV, they become "highly motivated to report to the rear echelon." On the other hand, deliberately dismounted scout car and recon jeep crews should be able to stick around, scout on foot and report what they observe and not just hightail it back to the rear. I hope they can finesse this some at the programming level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Haha this is friggin hilarious. I will DEFINITELY be using this tactic vs human opponents. I wonder if there will be an option to purchase "tank crew" units without the tank in QBs. Sure hope so. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Haha this is friggin hilarious. I will DEFINITELY be using this tactic vs human opponents. One more reason I only play against AI. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I should have taken a screenshot of the tank crew that attacked my PSW from 25m distance with their AP pistols... Routing ? Surrendering ? Hide and hope that they dont spot you ? ...fu** that, we will take that stupid PSW out and capture the crew ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 this was much worse in CMSF, usually "crack" tanks that after destruction spilled 5 M4 carabine armed GI´s, now magically transformed to crack infantry team could wreck havoc on RED right after bailing out. the CMBN pistol armed crews are not nice to watch while they attack like headless chicken, but they are not too dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 The AI-plan theory sounds plausible to me, hopefully some hardcoded "head for the rear and hunker down" script can be worked in for crew whose vehicle has been destroyed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waycool Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 The uber tank crews would seem to need taming. Can the ai handle routing them automatically to setup areas to enjoy a beer and a smoke>? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leakyD Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I wonder if there will be an option to purchase "tank crew" units without the tank in QBs. Sure hope so. Human wave crews? Gotta make a video of that.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex J. Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Panzer Commander: Now stand aside worthy adversary. Sherman Commander: 'Tis but a scratch! PC: A scratch?! Your Tank's destroyed!! SC: No it isn't. PC: Well what's that then?! (pointing to a smoking M4A3) SC: I've had worse. PC: You liar SC: Come on you Pansy. (or is that Panzer?) ( ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 One more reason I only play against AI. Unfortunately, gunnergoz, the AI will do this everytime. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemoN Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I've had an human opponent throw his tank crews at me in "Closing the Pocket". They cleared the town of infantry and I had to capture the town again with my HMG's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Panzer crews FTW ! Like noxnoctum i hope to get the option to purchase tank crews units without the tank in QBs. They will kick-ass... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 I've had an human opponent throw his tank crews at me in "Closing the Pocket". They cleared the town of infantry and I had to capture the town again with my HMG's. Haha that's beyond ridiculous. Maybe BFC could use what they did in CMx1 to prevent this... give them only a tiny bit of ammo for their pistols? Like one mag each? Either that or have them come out of the tank automatically panicked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggum Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Haha that's beyond ridiculous. Maybe BFC could use what they did in CMx1 to prevent this... give them only a tiny bit of ammo for their pistols? This fanatics dont need ammo, they will throw their K-rations at the enemy... (Actually a good idea but will that keep them away from attacking ?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LemoN Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 This fanatics dont need ammo, they will throw their K-rations at the enemy... (Actually a good idea but will that keep them away from attacking ?) Well, it will certainly minimise the damage they can do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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