Road to Berlin tutorial mission tactics for newbs.

[Haggard Sketchy]

Well, that guide was based off my infantry-only attempt so I didn't think of that. 75mm for breaching bocage is a waste IMO. Use engineers or 155s if you have them, but in this case you can simply advance under smoke instead.

I just finished the scenario again using only tanks. Smoke was the key. Unfortunately, after overrunning the ATG and just before it ended, one of the German officers managed to knock out a Sherman with a hand grenade. :mad:

Tip: Smoke shells are good for long range, but the great thing about the smoke discharger is its ability to fire over hedgerows. That way you can make a screen without exposing your tank.

[Smithers]

It is amazing the difference effective use of smoke can make! Thanks for the suggestion,it had quite frankly slipped my mind.

[DaddyO]

Thank you SO MUCH Stugdownunder. This is the kind of aide I suspect many newbies like me are looking for. It captures forces, routes, timing, etc. Some of us newbies get lost in the process because of a lack of experience. We don't know what we don't know. Examples of battle plans developed by successful, experienced users gives us an anchor to get started.

The map of your battle plan is a perfect illustration of the kind of tagging or markup capabilities I suggest to be built into the game. Scout the map, mark areas that shape your plan, mark up your plan, and have the whole thing toggle-able off/on as something you can call up by way of reminder and modify if need be.

See the thread I started here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96591

[Erwin.Rommel]

Use the similar tactic with most of you guys,the most important,make full use of the sherman's HE and machine guns with the "area fire" order to eliminate or surpress any suspect german targets and use the mortar to KO the ATG.Sent recon team with move&hide order to find out the ememy position,don't charge all you squad into the Bocage without surpressing fire until the enemy begin to escape.

Suffered 2 KIA 4 WIA with the German surrender

http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb350/yuyanzhe1986/Pic00011.jpg?t=1305485463

[GerryCMBB]

Hello:

Need help with the tutorial. Other than taking the farm (secondary objective), what can you do on your left side? Near the enemy there is that huge open field that is too deadly for infantry to cross. Would you just set up a fire base in the 2nd floor of that building? And then send most troops down the right hand side (where all the bocage is)?

How do you get infantry close to take out the ATG? Or do you mind your mortar rounds and focus them on the ATG?

Any help appreciated.

Gerry

[chris talpas]

Hello:

Need help with the tutorial. Other than taking the farm (secondary objective), what can you do on your left side? Near the enemy there is that huge open field that is too deadly for infantry to cross. Would you just set up a fire base in the 2nd floor of that building? And then send most troops down the right hand side (where all the bocage is)?

How do you get infantry close to take out the ATG? Or do you mind your mortar rounds and focus them on the ATG?

Any help appreciated.

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

Mortars generally are the best for taking out the ATG.

If you follow the battle plan laid out by Haggard Sketchy (where the major thrust is on the right side) feel free to use your tanks however in a standoff role, you should be able to meet up with success.

Chris

[GerryCMBB]

Thanks Chris. I will give that plan a try. Gerry

[MOSwas71331]

I hate the on-line manual. The phony Field Manual may seem clever, but the greyish text on the aged yellowish paper is hard to read. (The large ? mark in a box in the center of each page also doesn't help. The manual text it covers can't always be interpolated.)

As CMBN fills my screen so I can't refer to the on-line manual while I play, I printed the manual on my Epson printer. That got rid of the ? box on each page, but the brown text on yellow pages is still hard to read. Even worse, the yellowish pages emptied my printer's LightMagenta cartridge, so I got only the last 110 pages of the manual. My printer's out of action until I replace that empty cartridge.

I own CMBO, CMBB, and CMAK, so I'm familiar with the user controls for those games. CMBN's controls are more complex, and, with my incomplete manual, I haven't figured out how to view the map in the demo. I've given movement and targeting orders to one of my M4s, but locking the view to the M4 doesn't seem to do anything.

[goodwood]

Nobody has mention smoke, it is your friend the tanks and arty there s plenty of smoke. In both the tutorial and the German attack scenario use smoke to hide your advance. I love smoke, learn from my Action Station days that is good for u get about what the adds say

ps if any young kids are reading this post I'm fibbing!

[Haggard Sketchy]

As CMBN fills my screen so I can't refer to the on-line manual while I play, I printed the manual on my Epson printer.

alt-tab works for me.

Thank you SO MUCH Stugdownunder.

Nobody has mention smoke

*ahem* :mad:

[goodwood]

Sorry must have skipped your para 3

[snake_eye]

The German mortars are leathal, they caused 26 of my 29 casualties. I am actually beining to suspect their is something adrift with AI mortars, they just seem too accurate and able to deliver rounds to where they, nor their spotters, cannot have a line of sight. I am not calling foul at present, just suspicious.

German mortars in defence usually fired in battery, on pre registered coordinates. It might be that the A.I takes that in account and simulates it with a high degree of efficiency ? I had a squad nearly annihilated behind a hedgerow by such a pounding !

Anyway the germans had most of the time 81 mm right behind their line and even 120 mm. The later were mostly Russians mortars captured and then copied, right after the Eastern front first months battles.

[Stugdownunder]

Thank you SO MUCH Stugdownunder. This is the kind of aide I suspect many newbies like me are looking for. It captures forces, routes, timing, etc. Some of us newbies get lost in the process because of a lack of experience. We don't know what we don't know. Examples of battle plans developed by successful, experienced users gives us an anchor to get started.

The map of your battle plan is a perfect illustration of the kind of tagging or markup capabilities I suggest to be built into the game. Scout the map, mark areas that shape your plan, mark up your plan, and have the whole thing toggle-able off/on as something you can call up by way of reminder and modify if need be.

See the thread I started here:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=96591

You should thank Haggard Sketchy he is the one that made the battle plan. I am the one who simply started the thread.

[user38]

Well, I class myself as a newbie (although I prefer the appellation grognard impaired) and I managed to finish with a total victory with only 11 killed and 20 wounded and one tank destroyed because I was stupid. It took me a few goes and I learned some important lessons.

The first lesson is with respect to line of sight. You can't kill it if you can't see it. Conversely, they can't kill you if they can't see you.

The second lesson is with respect to C2. You can't call in a mortar strike if your spotter can't speak to your mortar section. For me the key to winning this scenario was effective use of mortars. I couldn't have done it without this post:

For further reference, here are the german units I did most of the testing with and will use in examples later on:

CoC-Level 1 - 3. Kompanie HQ (CHQ)

CoC-Level 2 - 3. Kompanie / 4. Zug HQ (PHQ)

CoC-Level 3 - 3. Kompanie / 4. Zug / 3rd Section HQ (SHQ)

CoC-Level 4 - 3. Kompanie / 4. Zug / 3rd Section / 1st Squad / A Team - Medium Mortar (MS-A)

CoC Level 4 - 3. Kompanie / 4. Zug / 3rd Section / 1st Squad / B Team - Mortar Ammo Bearer (MS-

C2-Basics

The C2 network can be visualized as a tree. In the example above, CHQ is the trunk, PHQ is a branch, SHQ is a twig and MS-A and MS-B are leaves.

There is only one way from any given "leave" to the "trunk"; known as the chain of command.

A unit can establish C2 contact only with a superior HQ within its own specific chain of command.

Missing links can be compensated by HQ units higher up in the same chain of command.

Means of C2-Contact

• Voice C2 contact between HQs and subordinate units can be established up to 50m, regardless of LOS.
  
• Voice C2 contact between HQs and subordinate units cannot be established if one of them is inside a vehicle.
  
• Close C2 visual contact between HQs and subordinate units can be established up to 100m, LOS provided.
  
• Distant visual C2 contact can only be established between HQs and DIRECTLY subordinate units (next in the chain of command) and seems to be limited only by LOS.
  
• Radio C2 contact between HQs and subordinate units seems not to be limited at all; integral radios or radio equipped vehicles provided.
  

Artillery Spotting - Special Rules

• SR-1: Any HQ or FO unit is able to call in indirect fire from any onboard artillery unit inside a radius of 50m, regardless of LOS or C2 contact.
  
• SR-2: Any operational, radio equipped vehicle, whether it is dismounted or occupied, in a radius up to 20m to an onboard artillery unit will enable all HQ or FO units to call in indirect fire from that artillery unit, regardless of LOS or C2 contact.
  
• SR-3: No call for indirect fire will be processed by means of distant visual contact (LOS, +100m), even though it is a viable C2 link.
  

Additional Test Results

• Setup 1: SHQ without integral radio and with no active C2 link is able to call for indirect fire in an radius up to 50M from MS-A.
  
• Setup 2: SHQ inside a radio equipped vehicle is able to call for indirect fire in an radius up to 100M from MS-A (MS-A is available for the whole C2 network).
  
• Setup 3: SHQ without integral radio but in voice (up to 50m) or close visual C2 contact (up to 100m) to PHQ is able to call for indirect fire as long as in close visual C2 contact (up to 100M) to MS-A (MS-A is available for the whole C2 network).
  
• Setup 4: SHQ without integral radio but in voice (up to 50m) or close visual C2 contact (up to 100m) to CHQ is able to call for indirect fire as long as in close visual C2 contact (up to 100M) to MS-A (MS-A is available for the whole C2 network).
  
• Setup 5: PHQ is able to call for indirect fire as long as in close visual C2 contact (up to 100M) to MS-A AND SHQ is integrated in the C2 network by any means except distant visual contact (MS-A is available for the whole C2 network).
  
• Setup 6: CHQ is able to call for indirect fire as long as in close visual C2 contact (up to 100M) to MS-A AND SHQ is integrated in the C2 network by any means except distant visual contact (MS-A is available for the whole C2 network).
  
• Setup 7: When distant visual C2 contact (LOS, +100m) is established between SHQ and MS-A (directly superior), neither SHQ nor any higher HQ will be able to call for indirect fire from MS-A (see SR-3), except SR-1 or SR-2 are in effect.
  

Test Summary: As long as C2 contact between all links is established by any means except distant visual contact, all onboard artillery units within that chain of command will be available to every HQ or FO unit on the map.

Possible room for improvement - Inconsistencies (imho)

• Offboard artillery is available to all FO and HQ units regardless of their C2 status.
  
• When SR-2 is in effect, onboard artillery is available to all FO and HQ units regardless of their C2 status.
  
• HQ or FO units out of C2 contact still have access to onboard artillery which is part of another, unbroken chain of command.
  
• The directly superior HQ of an onboard artillery unit, which has no further C2 contact, can only spot for his subordinate unit within a radius of 50m. The moment it establishes C2 contact, this radius is doubled to 100m (Setup 1, 3, 4.)
  
• SR-3 can prohibit indirect fire which would otherwise be legit (Setup 7).
  

Other lessons learned during testing

• There is a short delay in the visual represantation of newly established C2 links (gave me some WTF-moments before I realized that).
  
• Clicking on the icons for the C2 links will bring up the directly superior HQ, even though the represented C2 contact might have been established with an HQ higher up in the chain of command.
  
• Clicking on the unit names in the chain of command (part of the unit info panel) or in the unit/formation report (part of the team info panel for HQs) will bring up that unit or the formations HQ.
  
• While in the support roster, any selected onboard artillery unit and the designated spotter will have their unit icons highlighted and blinking for easy identification.
  

RT.

Until I read that post I had no idea what was going on with my mortars and spotters.

The first two images are the battlefield from the Allied side.

The next images are the battlefield from the German side: one at elevation and one at ground level.

After I was totally destroyed a few times I did some flying around at ground level from both sides. Looking at things from the German point of view I noticed a few things:

The stone wall controls the entire field in front of it, and the bend in the hedge controls almost the entire length of the road:

[user38]

I also noticed this hedge blocks LOS from potential enemies at the stone wall.

That is, what we have here is a game of two halves.

As far as spotting positions from the Allied side, neither of the farm houses gave good LOS to potential enemy positions. When I realised you could see through the bocage I found two decent spotting positions:

Given this my plan was simple:

I sneaked into the field and lined two rifle sections against the bocage and fired on the troops at the stone wall. When the mortars came on line I used them as well.

After about five minutes of this I used one of these rifle sections and my two reserve rifle sections to assault the farm houses (I lost a few men doing this). When the farm houses were cleared I moved my company HQ with its radio to spotting position 2 and called in some more mortar fire on the enemy positions. I then used the three rifle sections from the farm house to assault the German positions at the back of the map. By this stage the AT guns were either knockout out or abandoned so I used my tanks to mop up.

On the eastern side of the field I had lined up two rifle sections against the southern most bocage. I had intended to delayed this attack until the western attack taken out the AT guns but I ran out of time. So I assaulted from bocage to bocage losing a few men in that first big field. Once the AT guns were out of action I could bring the tanks on line and the battle was, for all intents and purposes, over.

Learnings

It's kind of like a Rock-Paper-Scissors game.

• Tanks beat infantry.
  
• AT guns beat tanks.
  
• Infantry beats AT guns.
  
• Machine guns beat infantry.
  
• Unsuppressed defending infantry beat attacking infantry.
  
• Mortars beat machine guns and infantry and AT guns.

What I learned from several attempts of this scenario is that the game is over once the tanks come on line, and the tanks can't come on line until the AT guns are destroyed. If the AT guns are supported by infantry and machine guns the key to a successful assault is to bring mortar fire to bear (on the guns and the infantry), and the key to all of this is to get a spotter with C2 to the mortars in a good spotting position.

I am glad I took the time to put this in writing because I think tonight I have learned something about combined arms operations and how the C2 and LOS rules work in this game. The first few attempts I was infuriated because I couldn't bring the mortars on line. I now realise the key to winning this game is to, as much as possible, stay out of enemy LOS and to move spotters with good C2 into good LOS positions. I would also like to express my profound thanks to ricochet-tracer for his excellent analysis of the mortar C2 rules.

[Renaud]

Nice writeup user38. My approach was very similar to yours. This was the first CMBN scenario I played (from the demo). I've played hundreds (ok probably 1000+) of CMx1 games, but what helped me the most was creating and playing a big wwII style bocage-simulation in 1.3 patched CMSF (red-vs-red, 'allied' side equipped with T55's). It'd been several years since I played CMSF, and those games were totally unlike ww2.

Key tactics:

1. broke off 3 scout teams. Used those to identify pretty much every enemy position. Then moved up shermans and support teams to destroy each position. Rinse and repeat.

2. smashing every identified, or even suspected, enemy position BEFORE moving the bulk of infantry up was the key to minimizing casualties. I'll bet most of my ammo (from tanks and infantry) was used on unidentified targets. You have a lot of time and a lot of ammo, use it. Use those .50's on the shermans too! No .50 should have any ammo left at end of scenario. It's worth the risk to your TC's.

3. the 60mm took out the AT gun, which foolishly fired a few rounds at an HQ target well before I moved any tanks into LOS, with indirect point fire.

4. Don't listen to the briefing, the farmhouse is a key position: take it first. I used smoke to cross the footbridge with no casualties, after waxing everything in LOS with 3 tanks on the left.

5. Up the road is a good tactic, but carefully...I actually attacked with left, center (road) and right groups. The road group came up 2nd, the right group last, and both only after the farmhouse was complete under control. Moving 2 tanks carefully up the road (after AT gun is gone) is key, as it provides flank fire and direct support as you jump hedgerows along the right side of map. Keep your infantry right up with the tanks though, or possibly one of those shrecks will get you. As it was I had them all suppressed or ko'd before tank comes into view.

6. The enemy mortars were late/inaccurate and caused 0 casualties, as I blew away their FO and everything else at the back of the map with mass sherman fire. As other's have said, don't hang around after you've pummelled them, move up or risk getting hit by the mortars (which will x2 or x3 your casualties right away).

Result was total victory with 7 kia and 11 wia, 25 minutes used. No tanks hit or damaged in any way. I risked my TC's but didn't lose any. I could have suffered a few less kia, if I had respected the center regular HMG team a little more. But otherwise you have to suffer some infantry casualties, or else you might lose some tanks.

Later I created a good multi-group/multiorder allied AI and played germans against that...much more difficult. I was able to limit my loss to a tactical defeat by holding the farmhouse and putting flanking fire on everything that went by for most of the game. US suffered 40% casualties but kept on coming. The 5 shermans are used very well by the AI and win the day for allies. I could only manage to kill 3 of them (all with the 75ATG, under 100 meter flanking fire and keyholed through trees). The AI attack is much improved over cmx1, both due to improved tacai and the available groups/orders programming.

[DavidFields]

Agree, nice write-up by User38.

And good stuff by the, clearly, very experienced Renaud.

Would you agree, Renaud (I am setting you up with a friendly question), that one of the keys to the tactical kingdom is this?:

You "take" a position by being able to put overwhelming fire on it. (one also defends a position with the same principle). People new to these simulations are often tricked, by the victory conditions, on rushing to sit on a place. (or defending it by sitting on a place), when that is often the thing one wants to do only at the very end, after clearing everthing around it first.

In this scenario, the bocage to the Allied left, prior to the farmhouse, can project firepower across the whole left flank--for infantry, mortar spotter, and the tanks can even risk shooting through the bocage gap (from 10s of meters back from the gap), like a bishop or rook in chess.

Of course it is nice when a scenario gives you enough time and ammo so one can be patient and methodical in the attack.

[user38]

Obviously I still have a lot to learn. It never occurred to me to use either smoke or scouting teams. I seem to recall from either the books "Band of Brothers" or "Beyond Band of Brothers" that on several occasions Lt Winters went on night scouting expeditions to scope out enemy positions prior to an attack. I may have to play this mission another couple of time to add these tactics to my repertoire.

[Renaud]

You "take" a position by being able to put overwhelming fire on it. (one also defends a position with the same principle). People new to these simulations are often tricked, by the victory conditions, on rushing to sit on a place. (or defending it by sitting on a place), when that is often the thing one wants to do only at the very end, after clearing everthing around it..

Of course it is nice when a scenario gives you enough time and ammo so one can be patient and methodical in the attack.

Agreed, using an excessive number of troops to hold an objective or in the point assault force is a common new guy mistake. Defense involves covering approaches rather than sitting on objectives. Attacks succeed or fail based on good recon and available support and base of fire. Throwing additional men at an objective without the above simply results in more casualties.

The tutorial gives you a lot of time so you can concentrate on honing your tactics. Change the Germans to regulars and reduce the time to 30 minutes and it's a different game.