CMx2: BfN MP impressions-here we go again

[buzzPC]

Yes I know its been beaten to death. It's not my intention to revisit issues already addressed over and over but given I'm not a routine poster to the forums (but a well-worn lurker) and a very loyal BF customer (purchased nearly every CM product to date) I wanted to provide my impressions after playing MP (for the first time) using the CMx2 engine (never tried MP with CM:SF). I do so with the utmost respect for the creators of the game (who have done an outstanding job) so as to simply provide some customer feedback in the hopes that feasible improvements might be made down the road.

Tried to play RT-MP with "Closing the Pocket" and I was struck as to how lost I quickly became once things started heating up. Maybe I'm just slow or whatnot but not being able to follow the action significantly made the game less fun for me. I don't care how "real" or "sim-like" a game or a game style may be, if I'm not having fun then whats the point?

Okay, TCP/IP WeGo w/replay (as in CMx1) is dead and gone. Not coming back with the current game engine. Understood and accepted.

Maybe I should just stick with PBEM I am sure a lot of folks are thinking right now and maybe you are right, but the "live" option is for me personally a much more enjoyable, fun way to play.

In light of these factors some requests/ideas for improvement (none of which are mine and probably all have been mentioned before). Just wanted to get some feedback on feasibility and give one customer's opinion on what I'd like to see.

1) RT, TCP/IP with pause option-- Probably the most likely to be included in upcoming versions I'd think. Whether "auto"-pause every x sec/min or maybe "silent" activated time-out (both players must hit esc within 30 sec of each other then game pauses until both hit esc again for instance) were included I think that would be a very reasonable solution.

2) PBEM enhancements-- Ingame PBEM manager using linked file sharing service. I hate to bring up another game but the new Panzer Command:Ostfront PBEM system is very functional and makes PBEM (if other player is online) nearly like TCP WeGo. Honestly this would be my choice of improvements if I had to choose between the two.

3) Others ??

Anyway, kudos to the BFC team for a great game, I can't wait for my SteelBox Pre-order version(!). No matter the shortcomings as I perceive them I remain a dedicated and impressed BF customer. Keep up the great work!

[Pvthudson]

I find it much better with real time. just pause it and issue orders.

[LJFHutch]

My main lessons were:

* Never ever, ever, ever rush tanks across open ground no matter how short it is or how well that worked with BTR-60s

* Never rely on US armoured vehicles pre-1960

Guy I played with experienced a heap of lag too

[LemoN]

Guy I played with experienced a heap of lag too

Yup.

Started out pretty good with ~400ms delay (Austria to Australia is a long way).

After 10 minutes it started to get worse until it was, after 30 minutes, nearly unplayable for me with at last 30-40 seconds delay.

My main lessons were:

*Watch out for the ammo levels of your squads, it's not very healthy to have infantry being counter-attacked if they're completely out of ammo.

*always stay on the move, arty HURTS!

*Worship the 20mm god

[buzzPC]

pvthudson--

you cannot pause RT when playing multiplayer. thats exactly what i was referring to in my initial post.

others--

of course using careful tactics will help you succeed in avoiding a catastrophe; that is just obvious. i was merely expressing an opinion that the current "live" MP option is less ideal ( in my mind) then the option available in CMx1. the suggestions i reiterated in my initial post i think would go a ways toward improving the game for those of us (and maybe i'm the only one) who feels a little overwhelmed by RT TCP as currently implemented ( without options for recalculation, rethought through a pause function).

Playing against the AI is great; all the options I'd want. not sure why similar functionality can't be extended to MP game.

[LemoN]

@buzzPC

I completely agree with you.

Unfortunately it's not in and probably won't be in until (maybe?) CMx3.

[Other Means]

In build PBEM functionality would be brilliant.

[Tactical Wargamer]

I find it much better with real time. just pause it and issue orders.

Thats the point can't do this with MP games.....

[Aldaros]

Are the Mac and Windows versions supposed to work together for MP? When I tried, we could connect, but whenever one of us hit the done positioning button to start the game, the other's game crashed. Rebooted into my Bootcamp XP install, and I was able to play fine with the Windows demo.

[Tactical Wargamer]

1) RT, TCP/IP with pause option-- Probably the most likely to be included in upcoming versions I'd think. Whether "auto"-pause every x sec/min or maybe "silent" activated time-out (both players must hit esc within 30 sec of each other then game pauses until both hit esc again for instance) were included I think that would be a very reasonable solution.

All for it!!!

Just seems like it just doesn't seem to be on their radar anytime soon. Sp issues and AI always take priority.

For me MP gaming is 80% of the game. Playing live in a controlled manner. Not feeling rushed and flying over the keyboards. I play FPS games that are more relaxing than with a RT CM game with no pause or something to control the speed. Slow ancient PBEM is the only real option at this point.

I keep buying the CM2 products just to support them. I think we are looking at the CM:BOTB version maybe for some sort of pause or variable speed the last time Steve spoke on it IIRC.

Mind you Matrix Ost Front does support TCI/IP games. That being said it is no where near the CM2 level in gameplay or realism.

[permanent666]

at the moment the best way to play multiplayer is hotseat against yourself

[TBlaster]

I'm going to have to agree here. I play Multiplayer most of the time, and managing real time without pause makes it non-enjoyable.

Short term fix: Please enable a pause option

Long term: TCPIP WEGO!

[Sergei]

Are the Mac and Windows versions supposed to work together for MP? When I tried, we could connect, but whenever one of us hit the done positioning button to start the game, the other's game crashed. Rebooted into my Bootcamp XP install, and I was able to play fine with the Windows demo.

They should work, I haven't tried it myself so I can't testify. But I recall it's been tried and works. Can you shed any more light as to what happened? Did you try it several times? Which one was host, who crashed?

[hoolaman]

These demo missions are probably a bit too big to play comfortably on RT.

RT also requires keeping the camera at a higher level to spot those ? contacts.

[Aldaros]

They should work, I haven't tried it myself so I can't testify. But I recall it's been tried and works. Can you shed any more light as to what happened? Did you try it several times? Which one was host, who crashed?

My friend (running the Windows version) was hosting both times, since I didn't have my router set up yet to host myself. We were using Steam for voice chat. The first time was playing the tutorial mission, him as US, me as Germans (and with me running the OS X version). When I was done positioning units, and hit the red pause/done button (he hadn't yet), his game crashed, and I got a message that the other player had dropped off. I restarted the game, and we tried again on a different mission (Breaking the Bocage, I think; whatever the German attacking one is), and didn't bother to move units. This time he hit the button first, I immediately crashed, and he got the player dropped message.

At that point, I gave up and rebooted into Windows XP (Pro, SP 3, fully patched), and the tutorial mission worked perfectly, first try, with him hosting as US, and me as Germans.

I'm running OS 10.6.7, again fully patched. I don't know what version of Windows he has; I think it's Vista, most likely also fully patched; still waiting to hear back from him on that.

Anyway, once I've got his OS, I'll go ahead and create a BFC helpdesk ticket (I assume that's how BFC wants bugs reported). I mainly wanted to make sure that it should have worked, so that I didn't file a bug report about something that was actually working as intended.

[noxnoctum]

Real time with an automatic pause every 60 seconds (or whatever) that both players have to unpause would be the solution.

Even maps like breaking the bocage are just too complex to coordinate in RT, at least if you don't wanna avoid needless casualties/waste a lot of time (you're either going to be very effective with a one platoon/company or very average with both)... and if you ARE playing to near-maximum capacity you have ZERO time to actually watch what's going on.

RT with pause would be a great solution however, as it would give you the time to look at things and adjust the grande scheme while you micro your orders during the 60 second RT phase. (stop a whole platoon from running like sheep into an MG for example)

Glad to see I'm not the only one who hates PBEM...

[buzzPC]

nox-

yeah under normal circumstances i dislike pbem. in fact i've never been able to finish a game using pbem (cmx1). just takes too long. i like being able to complete a mp battle in one sitting--the flow is just wrong when playing pbem over course of days (for me). hence why i would so love a buff to CM:BN MP.

now a pbem system where most of the work was done automatically in game so you could simply coordinate with your opponent to be online at the same time and so you would not have to manually drop out of the game send and load pbem turns seems like another alternative to wego TCP/IP. hope someday either or is implemented. but as i mentioned in the first post my hunch is RT with auto-pause is the most likely short-term solution (only question is how short). that still doesnt allow for utilization of replay which is also one of the most enjoyable aspects of CM for me.

again though i think the game is great and the lack of inclusion of a more agreeable MP system (in my mind) i guess will not dissuade me from continuing to enjoy current and purchase future BF/CM releases.

[Scheer]

I´ve played yesterday with my longtime buddy Strider, me hosting from germany, he joining from california. Went without a hitch, no lag at all. We used teamspeak 3 for comms.

Having said that, with noch chance of pausing the game, the demo scenarios are probably to big to coordinate in RT ( for us at least ). We played in soldier mode.