drtechno Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 How will the M21's be used? In other words, how is their functionality? Will it be like a direct fire unit in which we will select the M21, then select a target? Or will it be in the OnCall artillery window? Or will it function identical to a mortar, in other words, we can place it beside a building then place a spotter on the top floor, allowing the M21 to use indirect fire? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Along the same lines, how is the M4A1 mortar halftrack used since the mortar cannot be fired from within the vehicle. Does the M4 simply come with a mortar team? If so, then why does its ammo count show HE ammo (or is this simply a supply of ammo for the infantry mortar team) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Don't know for a fact, but it seems logical to be able to use them both in indirect and direct fire modes, the way they were in real life. Interestingly, it seems that CM:N simply regards the halftrack as transportation for the mortar and team to their firing site. Why do I say this? From reading the online manual. Apparently, no mortars fire from the M-21 in the game, so there will have to be a dismount/remount and setup time built in to their use. Sounds like you move them where you want them, set them up and fire. Possibly, you may have to set them up at the start of a scenario, don't know for sure yet. I'd be delighted if a beta tester or someone from BFC could square me away on that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Ah good point Gunner. I thought the disclaimer only applied to the M4A1, but you are correct, it also applies to the M21. There are 5 crew slots in the M21, so does the CREW dismount and have the mortar as equipment (used as a regular mortar) or does the vehicle include a vehicle crew and a weapons team ? The implication being the halftrack could move away if it was still manned by a vehicle crew and the mortar dismounted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Right now the M21 is functionally the same as the M4A1. Both are carriers. The vehicle has a driver and a mounted mortar team. You dismount the mortar, set up and fire. In addition to transport, both HTs offer the benefits of a radio the mortar team can receive calls for fire on as long as they are near the HT and a supply of mortar ammo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Currently M21 and M4A1 (and the German mortar HTs) dismount to fire. The game code still has to catch up to these vehicles for onboard mortar fire. It is on their to-do list, I believe. It wasn't one of those issues that was vital enough to necessitate delaying another month or two for game release. M21 and M4A1 HTs do have big advantages though. Units set up near their HTs get to use the large amount of ammo stored in the vehicle, plus the vehicle radio keeps them in contact with remote spotters. Non-mounted onmap mortars have whatever stocks their ammo bearers can carry plus need to keep a radio-carrying unit nearby to recieve incoming FO instructions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeeman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 which of course bearsthe ? about amo sharing, That is what if my ammo laden halftrack is near my onboard morters, will they automatically draw ammo from the HT? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Yes, they will. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fly Pusher Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 If I understand correctly this implies that once (or even before) all morter amo is fired the HT could be used for more 'traditional' purposes such as transporting infantry or MG overwatch / suppression. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 Just remember the M21 only has a small capacity.. 5 passengers if I remember correctly. Not full squad sized. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Either way, in bocage country that sounds like a very useful vehicle to have around. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeeman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 why would it not hve fll capacity after it unload the morter? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 It's not very useful for anything other than it's ammo slugging and C2 capabilities. The latter is something that will have to be experienced to be appreciated. Keeping mortars in C2 within the game is quite difficult, thanks to the general lack of man portable radios. The radios for M21/M4 halftracks are mounted in the vehicles so no vehicle means no radio. We don't support firing mortars from within vehicles because there's a bunch of complications with that from a simulation standpoint. The most significant is that these vehicles could only fire indirectly if the spotter knew exactly where the mortars were parked. The "on-the-fly" capabilities in CMx1 were quite unrealistic, except when firing without a spotter (i.e. direct fire). Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 I thought it was relatively easy maintaining mortar C2 ?? It seems all they have to do is be close to an HQ unit and either have the HQ or a FO call in indirect fire ? Seems simple enough. Guess I will have to wait to find out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Try it in a battle and see how easy it is Things have a way of quickly going FUBAR. Tip for you... plan out your Medium Mortar positions very, very carefully. Keep all their immediate Section and Platoon HQs as close as possible and out of the LOS of the enemy. Light Mortars are a bit easier to deal with. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 why would it not hve fll capacity after it unload the morter? M21 and M4A1 HTs are filled to the brim with ammo containers. Or at least the real world equivalents are. This is abstracted in the game, the M21 shares the M3 model. So you're obliged to imagine seating for five and stowage bins filling the interior. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drtechno Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 So you're obliged to imagine seating for five and stowage bins filling the interior. I would love to image this.. I really would. Somehow I think that releasing the game and/or demo would help my imagination be more vivid !! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 It's not very useful for anything other than it's ammo slugging and C2 capabilities. The latter is something that will have to be experienced to be appreciated. Keeping mortars in C2 within the game is quite difficult, thanks to the general lack of man portable radios. The radios for M21/M4 halftracks are mounted in the vehicles so no vehicle means no radio. We don't support firing mortars from within vehicles because there's a bunch of complications with that from a simulation standpoint. The most significant is that these vehicles could only fire indirectly if the spotter knew exactly where the mortars were parked. The "on-the-fly" capabilities in CMx1 were quite unrealistic, except when firing without a spotter (i.e. direct fire). Steve Well coming from a strictly leg perspective, lots of ammo and C2 plus not having to hump either the mortar or all that ammo sounds plenty of useful to me. :cool: I am sure the fire support provided would be found useful as well 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Try it in a battle and see how easy it is Keep all their immediate Section and Platoon HQs as close as possible and out of the LOS of the enemy. Steve I will, as soon as you release the Demo or the Game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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