Engineers in combat.

[gunnersman]

I don't really know much about engineers other than not only can they blow holes in walls and bocage (as per CMBN and CMSF), but they are supposed to be able to build stuff (Bridges mostly?). A group of guys that have a valuable skill that (I would think) take a long while to teach, seems a bit of a waste to put into combat doesn't it?

After my game play experience with CMSF and watching the VAARs that Tyrspawn put up as well as the DAARs with Elvis made me think it's kind of wasteful.

How often were engineers used as a part of the "tip of the spear"?

[gibsonm]

Engineers are one item you can never have enough of on the battlefield.

You should be able to use them to:

Construct / clear obstacles.

Lay / lift mines.

Construct / Reduce fortifications

Build / Blow bridges

Build / Block roads

And yes they do have a secondary role as Infantrymen.

So you might find them clearing the way for Infantry but they aren’t really trained or equipped to replace Infantry.

That’s not necessarily all portrayed in CM:BN though.

[13]

Haha, this old adage will definitely piss people off here: There are only two jobs in the military.

Infantry, and support.

[Praetori]

And yes they do have a secondary role as Infantrymen.

So you might find them clearing the way for Infantry but they aren’t really trained or equipped to replace Infantry.

Sturmpionier?

There's always an exception to the rule

[Ryujin]

I'd just like to see proper mine clearing/laying on a small scale (even just surface laid mines). No more finding mines only by stepping on them please.

The ability to use the blast command on anything would be handy too (open ground to make cover, barbed wire, tank obstacles, bridges, etc). Outside of demolition/mines, it seems anything else would be used too little and take too long. So engineers will probably still feel oddly useless like recon troops.

For bridges I'd imagine some sort of bridge laying engineering vehicle would make more sense in the CM scale that the dismounted engineers making anything. Not sure how common anything like that was in ww2 though.

[gibsonm]

Sturmpionier?

There's always an exception to the rule

Well there are "Pioneers" and then there are "Engineers".

A rough rule of thumb is that "pioneers" have limited engr skills and are mainly Infantry, while "engineers" have limited Inf skills and are mainly Engineers.

[Peregrine]

Most of the important stuff they specialise in doesn't happen in direct fire situations that are portrayed in CM.

[gibsonm]

Absolutely.

And stuff like SOSRA is too big in scale for CM:BN map limitations.

[Michael Emrys]

Within the CM context, they should be handy assisting attacks against prepared defenses as they came with an assortment of useful goodies and training in their use.

Michael

[Johnsy]

Can engineers blow road blocks or barbed wire in CMBN???

[Michael Emrys]

Can engineers blow road blocks or barbed wire in CMBN???

Blowing road blocks might take a bit of time consuming preparation. I tend to really favor blowing barbed wire though. How long did it take to set up an bangalore torpedo under fire?

Michael

[Magpie_Oz]

Blowing road blocks might take a bit of time consuming preparation. I tend to really favor blowing barbed wire though. How long did it take to set up an bangalore torpedo under fire?

Michael

Not long all you had to do was shove it in the right spot and light the fuse.

They work on roadblocks too, depending on the block of course

[Michael Emrys]

Not long all you had to do was shove it in the right spot and light the fuse.

But you have to fit the sections together first. Wire obstacles had depth, not like cattle fences.

They work on roadblocks too, depending on the block of course

Sure, but you don't want to crater the road in the process.

Michael

[gibsonm]

Can engineers blow road blocks or barbed wire in CMBN???

Well you, at least, should be able to find out for yourself.

[Magpie_Oz]

But you have to fit the sections together first. Wire obstacles had depth, not like cattle fences.

Sure, but you don't want to crater the road in the process.

Michael

Sure the idea of a Bangelore was to connect it together and make a length that you could extend through an obstacle with depth but screwing the two together did not take that long, I mean in comparison to wiring up an explosive charge.

As for cratering the bangelore was designed to direct the blast sideways, to "peel" open barbed wire and although it did explode downwards most of the force was lateral so the crater would be less so, certainly less that a satchel charge.

Having said that, it of course depends on what the roadblock is made of as to how effective it would be.

My guess would be that most roadblocks would be made of either a) random junk that a man can pick up and toss in a heap which would not pose much of an obstacle and a bangelore would clear easily or random stuff piled up by an earthmoving machine like a rubble or earth berm which explosives would have a hard time breaching and a bangelore would have minimal effect.

Does CM differentiate a hasty or prepared roadblock?

[MikeyD]

Engineers building stuff in the game is like paratroopers jumping. You build a scenario with a bridge, put engineers next to it, and write in the orders that they had just finished constructing/repairing it before game start.

[Magpie_Oz]

Engineers building stuff in the game is like paratroopers jumping. You build a scenario with a bridge, put engineers next to it, and write in the orders that they had just finished constructing/repairing it before game start.

Or you could have them with the task of building the bridge under fire i.e. they have to occupy the bridge area for the entire scenario while the other guys try to keep the enemy at bay !

I think if some of the lesser noted units were included in the game you could come up with a bit more spice in scenarios, especially if it is part of an on going campaign.

Then again, greater detail leads to greater development which leads to greater waiting time, which is the last thing anyone around here wants atm !

[Agua]

Seems like they threw satchels at pillboxes in CMBO. Did they take out mines as well? Been waaay too long since I played it.

[13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APDe5QH6fhY

A little different seeing as it's concertina wire, but, yeah.

[Michael Emrys]

Sure the idea of a Bangelore was to connect it together and make a length that you could extend through an obstacle with depth but screwing the two together did not take that long, I mean in comparison to wiring up an explosive charge.

Agreed. But I was thinking that being under fire and having to choose between ducking or getting shot might slow the work down.

As for cratering the bangelore was designed to direct the blast sideways, to "peel" open barbed wire and although it did explode downwards most of the force was lateral so the crater would be less so, certainly less that a satchel charge.

Having said that, it of course depends on what the roadblock is made of as to how effective it would be.

My guess would be that most roadblocks would be made of either a) random junk that a man can pick up and toss in a heap which would not pose much of an obstacle and a bangelore would clear easily or random stuff piled up by an earthmoving machine like a rubble or earth berm which explosives would have a hard time breaching and a bangelore would have minimal effect.

There were also examples of roadblocks comprised of inert vehicles pushed into the roadway and disabled in such a way that they could not be easily moved. In terms of permanent roadblocks, some of the ones blocking the exits off the invasion beaches were poured ferroconcrete walls that took quite a bit of blasting followed by bulldozer work. Those would not have been common though.

Michael