Can I have the game on two computers?

[MadWoman]

I know they're using some kind of new licensing. Before I buy, wanted to know...can I run the game on my home computer AND my work computer?

[Alaric]

i think you get 4 licenses, but with the new system you cannot return any license to the server, too, you get one more license each 365 days, if you are to format some of the systems better dont waste a license key on it, otherwise, you can license 2 of 4 installs, i guess, if i understand the new license well,

have my best regards,

Alaric.

[MadWoman]

So let me get this straight, I only get four installs period even if it's only on one computer??? Without a way to get one back before 365 days go by?

No sale. No thanks. And if I wasn't a lady I'd tell them exactly what they can do with this form of DRM and where they could put it.

[Bossy57322]

The short answer is yes, as I currently have the game on my home PC and laptop.

So let me get this straight, I only get four installs period even if it's only on one computer??? Without a way to get one back before 365 days go by?

I don't think that is correct. If I understand correctly, you get unlimited installs so long as you don't reformat?

There is a competitor to BF that does it much better, but they don't sell this beauty of a game.

[MadWoman]

Sorely tempted to just wait for Commander: The Great War.

Get a serial code. Enter serial code. Done. As many times as I need to.

If Battlefront wants to treat paying customers like criminals, I'll take my business somewhere else.

[Bossy57322]

Sorely tempted to just wait for Commander: The Great War.

Get a serial code. Enter serial code. Done. As many times as I need to.

If Battlefront wants to treat paying customers like criminals, I'll take my business somewhere else.

Because you are an honest person and have no intention of engaging in illicit activity, your reaction is natural. I have the same reaction at times. Unfortunately, some folks out there are not honest and I don't blame any developer or publisher for trying to protect his/her/their property and rights and get paid for every copy of a game which they have every right to be paid for.

There are better copy protection systems out there, and there are worse. Battlefront's does not strike me as so odious that you should miss this game, IMHO.

And there is no reason you can't own both this game and Commander as I will own both - just as I own all the SC WWII games and CEAW. Fun games all.

[Jestre]

Because you are an honest person and have no intention of engaging in illicit activity, your reaction is natural. I have the same reaction at times. Unfortunately, some folks out there are not honest and I don't blame any developer or publisher for trying to protect his/her/their property and rights and get paid for every copy of a game which they have every right to be paid for.

There are better copy protection systems out there, and there are worse. Battlefront's does not strike me as so odious that you should miss this game, IMHO.

And there is no reason you can't own both this game and Commander as I will own both - just as I own all the SC WWII games and CEAW. Fun games all.

Totally agree, will buy the WWI Commander game also, and will buy the Panzer Korps game coming out from Matrix too. But this game is really outstanding!!! If you are truly interested in the history of WWI this game gives you a level of immersion I havent seen in a war game is some time while still remaining easy to play.

[Alaric]

best regards, i think the support team, in the event we run out of e-licenses by re-format the pc, and asking to support, can re-activate some e-license if we provide some of the purchase data, so, is not that bad system, they said so much many times, when they have enough data to prove you are a customer, they will re-activate one e-license, i think/guess as many times as we may need, sure that it takes some time and is not an automatic procedure to re-activate the e-license, but well, i should say the Strategic Command Series games, for me, worth it,

have best regards,

Alaric.

[Bill101]

From the Knowledgebase:

"Our Online Activation System... allows you to activate a game on one PC plus one backup PC. However, unlike eLicense, the new OAS also gives you two "overflow" activations by default, no questions asked. Only after you run out of these 4 activations will you need to add an activation to your key, and can do so once per year. Activations are added at www.battlefront.com/activate.

...Once activated, your game will remain active on that PC for as long as it's installed. We have no means to deactivate your games, nor do we monitor any of your activities, or require online updates/license checks."

The full article can be found here:

http://www.battlefront.com/helpdesk/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=194

[MadWoman]

That's exactly the point. If I uninstall/reinstall on the original PC, I've used up an activation. Have to do that more than four times a year on the two PC's I'd have the game on, between them? No soup for me.

No thanks. The system treats the CUSTOMER like a criminal. Why should I purchase a game from Battlefront, with a system that treats the people who pay like a criminal, instead of purchasing from Slitherine/Matrix, where I can enter my serial, I'm good to go, and if I have to do it again, as many times as I wish? No problem.

Slitherine/Matrix treats customers like customers.

Battlefront treats customers like criminals.

You tell me which is more likely to get my money.

And I can tell you, from 20+ years of PC gaming, there are a lot of people who feel the way I do.

[canuck97]

I too feel a bit nervous because of the new licensing system: I bought Global Conflict as well as The Great War. I (as everyone does I think) immediately installed both games just after the purchase.

However, I have to re-install both of my PCs (Notebook + Desktop) for a change of the OS (from XP to 7). So all of my four available install "tickets" are gone. But - in the long term (i.e. 3-4 months from now) - I'm planning to replace the hardware as well. So I won't be able to install the games on my new machines then.

So what solutions (if there are any) do I have for those kind of scenarios? I guess I'm not the only one with this concern. You have to admit that it's only a question of time until you have to re-format and re-install a Windows System nowadays...

[Moon]

Sheesh, I love it when people jump to conclusions about things they don't understand AND assume the worst as well. Anyway...

If I uninstall/reinstall on the original PC, I've used up an activation.

No, this isn't correct. Uninstalling/reinstalling the game does not erase your license. The license remains in effect on your PC unless you do e.g. a total reformat of your PC. And if you reinstall the game on a PC that had the game activated previously, you won't be even asked to license your game.

On top of that, even if you do manage to use up your 4 activations, you get 1 additional activation per year. Every year. Without a limit. So your activations are not limited to 4 at all.

And lastly, if you do have an emergency, used up 4 activations AND the additional activation is less than a year ago, then you can always contact our www.battlefront.com/helpdesk, explain the situation, and we may just grant you an extra license out of turn. It usually helps to not start your request with "you are treating me like a criminal" Because we don't.

[Wushuki]

On top of that, even if you do manage to use up your 4 activations, you get 1 additional activation per year. Every year. Without a limit. So your activations are not limited to 4 at all.

Is this only true for the downloaded version of the game or does this also apply to the cd version? If not, then how does it work with the cd version?

[Moon]

There are no differences between the download and the cd version. The cd version does not require the disc to be in the drive to play. You only need it to install from disc.

After you install the game, the activation process is identical, regardless of how you got your setup files (download or mail).

For the activation, you have two options:

1) Online. Make sure you are online, hit the Online activation button, enter your license key (which is the same key used to download the file, or it is a key printed on the game box, for mail only delivery), and that's that. After the game is activated, the license is saved on your PC, both inside your game directory, as well as in a common Windows location outside. Even if you uninstall the game, your license information is not uninstalled with it, unless you erase your entire PC. Major modifications to your PC may prompt you to reactivate, but usually when you reinstall the game, you won't even be asked t relicense.

2) Manual activation. The manual activation procedure is outlined in the manual as well as in our Knowledgebase at www.battlefront.com/helpdesk. The on-screen prompts provide some guidance, too (and those will improve a lot also with the first patch, including a few extra bits of info that we're now finding customers to be confused about occasionally). The Manual activation means that the PC where you install the game does not have to be hooked up online. You do however need access to another PC (internet cafe for example) that has access to our website, which is needed to complete the activation process. Maybe in the future we'll offer a phone number for this, so you won't need any internet access... but really, since you have to buy the game online anyway, that's probably not necessary.

Martin

[Moon]

I too feel a bit nervous because of the new licensing system: I bought Global Conflict as well as The Great War. I (as everyone does I think) immediately installed both games just after the purchase.

However, I have to re-install both of my PCs (Notebook + Desktop) for a change of the OS (from XP to 7). So all of my four available install "tickets" are gone. But - in the long term (i.e. 3-4 months from now) - I'm planning to replace the hardware as well. So I won't be able to install the games on my new machines then.

So what solutions (if there are any) do I have for those kind of scenarios? I guess I'm not the only one with this concern. You have to admit that it's only a question of time until you have to re-format and re-install a Windows System nowadays...

In this scenario you have used up two of your activations for the first install (to install on two PCs). You will use up two more for the reinstall after changing the OS, for a total of four. You will be able to add an activation to your key, so after the hardware upgrade in 3-4 months from now, you will be able to install the game yet again on a fifth PC. You will then have to wait for a few months before you can install it on a sixth, or you will have to purchase another license.

If you are planning to upgrade your PCs completely 3 times a year and plan to play the game on 2 PCs all the time, you should consider buying more licenses. We offer discounts for that.

For everyone else, the ability to have 2+2 activations plus 1 additional one every 365 day period is more than enough.

[Bossy57322]

If you are planning to upgrade your PCs completely 3 times a year and plan to play the game on 2 PCs all the time, you should consider buying more licenses. We offer discounts for that.

This is where it gets dicey - sometimes the reformats are involuntary - let's say a malware infestation or broken hard drive. I don't see how its fair to penalize someone for that.

[Moon]

If you have an involutary reformat, then there is no difference between eLicense and our new Online Activation System. In both cases your license is lost and needs to be reset. Our new Online Activation System has an advantage here: it allows you more activations from the start, by default, and it allows you to add a new activation yourself once per year without having to ask our support and wait for them to do it for you. If you have an involuntary reformat more than once in the same year, then the procedure is identical between eLicense and our OAS: you have to open a support ticket at www.battlefront.com/helpdesk, describe what happened, and depending on the situation we can help.

[Wolfpack]

I don't get why you can't unlicense the game when you know, for instance, that you're going to do an upgrade, not being able to unlicense, get that install back for later use seems ridiculous. I don't really have a problem with the whole licensing thing, but not being able to reclaim them without waiting a year for a new one just seems silly, and no, getting 4 installs with the initial purchase doesn't make up for it. I'd be happy with 2 if it was possible to remove and transfer it. Honestly, I may never have an issue with it, but I already can't play any of the previous SC games I've bought because of the licensing issues, and while it's not as bad as some systems out there, it is more onerous than necessary. Unless it changes, this will probably be the last BFC purchase I make, because dealing with issues on one game is plenty for me, much less if I had issues with multiple games.

[MadWoman]

Moon, please tell me how this scheme is NOT treating me like a criminal by limiting MY use of what I paid for, as opposed to a system like Slitherine/Matrix's (enter a serial number it's yours. Need to reinstall? No limits, no problem.)

[Moon]

I don't get why you can't unlicense the game when you know, for instance, that you're going to do an upgrade, not being able to unlicense, get that install back for later use seems ridiculous. I don't really have a problem with the whole licensing thing, but not being able to reclaim them without waiting a year for a new one just seems silly, and no, getting 4 installs with the initial purchase doesn't make up for it. I'd be happy with 2 if it was possible to remove and transfer it. Honestly, I may never have an issue with it, but I already can't play any of the previous SC games I've bought because of the licensing issues, and while it's not as bad as some systems out there, it is more onerous than necessary. Unless it changes, this will probably be the last BFC purchase I make, because dealing with issues on one game is plenty for me, much less if I had issues with multiple games.

Wolfpack, you are highlighting one problem with eLicense yourself when you say "I already can't play any of the previous SC games I've bought because of the licensing issues". Unlicensing is a great concept and it's fairly unique. (Which is why your comment "not being able to unlicense, get that install back for later use seems ridiculous" is completely wrong, because very very few systems out there allow you to do it in the first place) It is one of the reasons why we have been using eLicense in the past, in fact. However, in practical life, we have found that more people forget to unlicense their games than remember it. In the end, the ability to unlicense is meaningless because if you forget to do it, you HAVE to ask our support to reset the key for you. And we can only do this a few times, too, which means that the system, while perhaps flexible in theory, ends up being more limiting than what we have now (an open end "add activation").

not being able to reclaim them without waiting a year for a new one just seems silly

It is by default more flexible than not being able to reclaim it at all if you lost an activation due to a hard crash. But in reality, both systems are the same, since we do make exceptions to the rules, and you can always request more than the system allows.

Having said that, there is no reason why you "can't play any of the previous SC games I've bought because of the licensing issues". Go to www.battlefront.com/helpdesk and click on Submit Ticket, explain what the problem is, and we may be able to reset your key(s) for you. We do it all the time for people, and that is the whole point... now people can do it themselves, AND get more flexibility early on. Neither system has a hard limit of activations, and both enforce our EULA (End User License Agreement) that are part of your purchase equally well.

[Moon]

Moon, please tell me how this scheme is NOT treating me like a criminal by limiting MY use of what I paid for, as opposed to a system like Slitherine/Matrix's (enter a serial number it's yours. Need to reinstall? No limits, no problem.)

Sure, I'm happy to. You are paying for a license to use our software. You do not own the software, it remains Intellectual Property of Fury Software and Battlefront.com. Your purchase buys you a license to use our software within the gudelines and restrictions of our End User License Agreement (EULA).

There are many EULAs out there, more or less restrictive. There are also freeware and shareware and all sorts of other IP and copyright concepts out there. While I am not sure if Slitherine/Matrix condones unlimited use of the games they sell you, or simply has no means to enforce their EULA, I don't know. But it's not relevant either way, because our software comes with our EULA, and everyone is bound by it.

Our OAS is therefore not treating you like criminals, but it is merely helping enforce our EULA. It is, in fact, more flexible than our EULA, because it gives you more activations than is allowed to start with, it does not check if you are really only running two copies at the same time and use one to play and one as backup, and it allows you to add activations ad infinitum to your key for free in the future. It is all around a very nice compromise between the protection of our IP and your rights as customer. In this way it is, by the way, way more flexible and much less "criminal" than most other DRM and activation systems out there, many of which allow you only one "seat", or do not allow you to transfer your game to other people at all etc.

Martin

[Jestre]

I'd much rather have SC's method than have to go thru Steam or a similar system. Anyone that needs more than 5 activations in one year should really stop using computers

[Bossy57322]

If you have an involutary reformat, then there is no difference between eLicense and our new Online Activation System. In both cases your license is lost and needs to be reset. Our new Online Activation System has an advantage here: it allows you more activations from the start, by default, and it allows you to add a new activation yourself once per year without having to ask our support and wait for them to do it for you. If you have an involuntary reformat more than once in the same year, then the procedure is identical between eLicense and our OAS: you have to open a support ticket at www.battlefront.com/helpdesk, describe what happened, and depending on the situation we can help.

Fair enough. Bought the games, accepted the terms, will see how it works out.

I'd much rather have SC's method than have to go thru Steam or a similar system. Anyone that needs more than 5 activations in one year should really stop using computers

Win7 and a SSD. A far cry from XP and reformatting endlessly.

[canuck97]

Okay, regarding my last post about the need for several activations:

I just wanted to point out that it's not only a strange theory that in some cases you could need more activations than there are available from scratch.

In my case I installed both games (Global Conflict & The Great War) on my desktop and on my laptop. Due to my job and my private life I have to travel a lot during a month - so I'm glad that I can also play the games on my laptop.

So if I - for whatever reason (in my case it will be an OS change from XP to 7 on both systems) - have to make a significant change in the Windows OS, I'm already out of available licenses. I just wanted to make the case that it's not only a wild theory that there can be scenarios where you HAVE to reformat and reinstall the whole system. And everyone who uses Windows knows what I'm talking about when I say that you're forced to whipe the system once in a while in order to keep it running smooth and steady. So it's not only those kind of weird "all my harddisks broke" scenarios...

I really understand that it's necessary to protect the IP and to make sure that everything works within the terms of the EULA - but I also think that the customer should've the freedom to decide when and where to install the given number of parallel activated licenses (i.e. 2 for these games). So I really prefer the previous elicense system for that. However, if it is possible to contact the Battlefront helpdesk in order to explain an exceptional case and get a license "back" - then I'm okay with it.

[Fintilgin]

It is all around a very nice compromise between the protection of our IP and your rights as customer. In this way it is, by the way, way more flexible and much less "criminal" than most other DRM and activation systems out there

No offense, but it's amazing that you can say this with a straight face. Pretty much every other digital distribution site of any consequence has better customer rights/experience.

I can buy a game from Steam, or Gamersgate, or Impulse, or GoG and download and install it whenever I want, however many times I want. I don't have to scribble down serial numbers or backup installers. I never have to go, hat in hand, to some third-party DRM provider and say "Please sir, can I have another installation?"

Even Matrix Games is (finally) getting with the times and allowing things like unlimited downloads and modifying their DRM to be a little more 21st century. Even 'Knights of the Chalice' (look it up, great game) which is way more indie and niche then anything Battlefront publishes, allows me to redownload long after I bought it! I just checked, and I can still log in 18 months after my purchase and can still download it. No serial number, no activations. Just download and play.

Sure, it's your product, and you can do whatever you want with your DRM, but don't try to pretend you guys don't have draconian DRM. Pointlessly draconian, in my opinion. The only people inconvienced by this stuff are paying customers. I'm willing to bet any pirated copies floating around out there have the DRM stripped out and the pirates can cheerfully do whatever they please with them.

Now, shortly after I hit submit reply, I'm going to go buy a copy of this game. But I'll be holding my nose when I do it. I'm another customer who detests being treated like a criminal who has only the what minimal rights to my purchase you deign to grant at any given time (oh, and thanks for the money). I like this series enough to overcome my annoyance with harsh DRM and old fashioned distribution (you can only download once, hurry!) but I bet a lot casual customers take their money elsewhere.

You can wring your hands about how all we're really purchasing is a 'license' and you can set whatever terms you want, but nowadays when people get online and buy a game they expect to get the hassle-free right to play and access that game whenever they want in perpetuity. You can deny that right for your product and throw up whatever barriers you want, but you're costing yourself sales every time you do.

The whole thing just has an actively unfriendly aura to the purchaser.

Personally, I suspect you guys spend more money setting up fancy DRM: a fair amount I'd guess, and lose more money from turned off customers: a lot, then you gain in preventing piracy: probably next to nothing, as I'm sure all your games, like every other game ever made, have been cracked to hell and back.

I look forward to the day, in the far and misty future, when Battlefront joins the rest of the civilized world of digital distribution and we can download and install our games whenever we please, even years down the line. When paying customers aren't treated with fear and suspicion.

Alright! Rant over! It's the principle of the thing, dammit.

Off to buy SC:WW1. I looks like a good game.