gibsonm Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 PM sent, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 PM sent, Got it. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 ----------------------- 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks for reminding me to unsubscribe to this thread. The question has been addressed and I at least don’t need to be bombarded with moment by moment posts of unrelated stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 You are right, my mistake, maybe I should delete that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Yes, you are right that the game is not a tank/IFV simulator and it shouldn't accurately simulate every vehicle in the game, but as a wargame it should simulate realistic tactic. And if IFVs can be used as a tanks, something is wrong. There is a simple solution - to increase aiming time, like it was done for BMP-1 (Spigot ATGM also must be raised before firing). Another solution is to make "Deploy" button like it is made for infantry heavy weapons (it seems that AI handles good with it). By the way, should Bradley armor stop 30mm AP at 360 degrees (not only from frontal fire)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 By the way, should Bradley armor stop 30mm AP at 360 degrees (not only from frontal fire)? Up from M2A2 it can surely survive 30mm APDS ammo hits from front and sides. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Up from M2A2 it can surely survive 30mm APDS ammo hits from front and sides. Also, BMP-2 in the game fires 30mm AP which is less capable than APDS, like that fired from the BMP-3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damian90 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 BMP-2 30mm gun can fire both, AP, APDS and even APFSDS rounds, same as US 25mm can fire APDS and APFSDS ammo, and any other modern automatic cannon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dietrich Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The funny thing is, there is a Bradley TOW launcher animation. Of a sort. No doubt plenty of others have noticed this too, but with a Bradley that hasn't yet fired any TOWs, the launcher is partially inside the ISU (integrated sight unit). Yet right before the Bradley fires its first TOW of the scenario, the launcher slews laterally several inches, so that it's no longer inside the ISU, and as far as I've noticed it remains in that position throughout the rest of the scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 The funny thing is, there is a Bradley TOW launcher animation. Of a sort. No doubt plenty of others have noticed this too, but with a Bradley that hasn't yet fired any TOWs, the launcher is partially inside the ISU (integrated sight unit). Yet right before the Bradley fires its first TOW of the scenario, the launcher slews laterally several inches, so that it's no longer inside the ISU, and as far as I've noticed it remains in that position throughout the rest of the scenario. Thought occured to me today. Knock the recon version of the Bradley but compare it the UK. UK has a reletively high defense expediture and we still have Scimatar in this role: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FV107_Scimitar Entered service 1971. Bloody hell. Recently used in Afghanistan to some effect as flank and recon screens and fire support groups. Kept out of RPG range from what I have read. So is the BRM-1 the premier Russian recon vehicle? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well, at least Scimitars were upgraded. Russian army used BMP-1's in Chechnya, their 73 mm guns were useless. So, no reply from BFC. They must be busy with CM:Normandy. Sad if this bug stay in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well, at least Scimitars were upgraded. Scimitars are great! I spent 3 weeks on one when they just had the Jaguar engine - sports car on tracks. So, no reply from BFC. They must be busy with CM:Normandy. Sad if this bug stay in the game. Not “sad” just a limitation that you need to work around - just like the other “issues” I posted in #4. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Well, at least Scimitars were upgraded. Russian army used BMP-1's in Chechnya, their 73 mm guns were useless. So, no reply from BFC. They must be busy with CM:Normandy. Sad if this bug stay in the game. Doesn't bother me one bit. The Bradleys work just fine in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Scimitars are great! I spent 3 weeks on one when they just had the Jaguar engine - sports car on tracks. Agreed, I got my tracked licence in one. Cross country with it was best fun driving I ever had. Very fast and versatile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmar Bijlsma Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 IIRC one reason it is done in the current way is that it's tricky for the game to know when to prepare for TOW firing. It doesn't know what you are planning to engage, or when. It's not a mind reader. If it leaves TOW launcher deployment until the moment you assign a fire order against a tank, it is too late. If it deploys automatically prior to a fire order being given, it would often do so when it is unneeded. And a player required toggle is probably too confusing for most players, many of whom would be unaware of the need to do so, or forget to deploy/undeploy at crucial moments. More hassle then it is worth, creating more problems for player along the line. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 If it deploys automatically prior to a fire order being given, it would often do so when it is unneeded. Why unneeded? Does gunner deploy it manually? Can vehicle fire while deploying ATGM? I suggest to do it in such way : if vehicle doesn't move for some time, ATGM is deployed. Undeploying can be skipped. Not 100 % realistic, but better then now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Doesn't bother me one bit. The Bradleys work just fine in the game. Yes, fine for blue player . But when your T-72 platoon in good defensive position is destroyed by 8 atacking Bradleys (with some losses, of course), it is not fine . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 If it deploys automatically prior to a fire order being given, it would often do so when it is unneeded. Why unneeded? Well because the TOW is only one of three weapon systems that the gunner controls under the commander’s supervision. The other two being the 25mm and the coax MG (I’m not counting the smoke grenades). There is no point in the TOW deploying (and going through all the checks listed below) if the target is “men in open” (a coax target) or an APC (a 25mm target). Especially as once the gunner selects TOW he is effectively “locked out” of using the other two (until he puts some switches back). Does gunner deploy it manually? Yes. 6a below. Can vehicle fire while deploying ATGM? No. 6a below. From FM 7-7J Crew Drill 12 ENGAGE TARGETS WITH THE TOW (CREW) SITUATION: The Bradley crew has identified a target for the TOW within 3,750 meters. REQUIRED ACTIONS: 1. Bradley Commander: Commands GUNNER, MISSILE, TANK, and lays the gun for direction to the target. 2. Gunner: Starts searching for the target as the BC lays the gun. 3. Driver: Halts the vehicle in a hull-down position. 4. Gunner: Selects HIGH MAG and uses the ISU to determine if the target is engageable. 5. Driver: Checks the vehicle slope indicator to ensure the vehicle is within the 10-degree slope warning. 6. Gunner: Checks the vehicle slope indicator to ensure the vehicle is within the 10-degree slope warning. Places the launcher’s UP-DOWN switch on the TOW control panel to UP. a. Depresses the gunner’s palm switch to raise the launcher. b. Depresses the TOW button on the TOW control panel. c. Selects the missile tube one or two on the TOW control panel. d. Places the arm-safe-reset switch to ARM. e. Sights the target, announces, IDENTIFIED, and lays the cross hairs on the center of target visible mass. (1) If the gunner announces “Cannot identify,” the BC attempts to identify and gives further instructions. (2) If the gunner announces "Lost," the BC gives additional target location information. (3) If the gunner announces “Friendly,” the BC gives the new target description or takes the weapon out of action. (4) If the gunner announces "Cannot engage,” the BC designates another target or tells the driver to move the vehicle (for example, “Driver, back, right, stop”). 7. Bradley Commander: On hearing “Identified,” commands FIRE. 8. Gunner: On hearing “Fire,” announces ON THE WAY, and fires. I suggest to do it in such way : if vehicle doesn't move for some time, ATGM is deployed. Undeploying can be skipped. Not 100 % realistic, but better then now. Well now you have to define “some time” and a bunch of other issues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 gibsonm, thanks for the info! As it is described in the manual, raising the launcher delay should be included in aiming time in the game? I see 2 variants there: -after some time staying without move ATGM is deployed and can be fired immediately, without delay. Undeploying isn't simulated, vehicle can fire while deploying (simplification); -when crew spot enemy tank, in aiming time is included delay for raising the TOW launcher; IMHO 2nd variant is more realistic. "For firing, the box swings upwards to the side 90 degrees; about 10 seconds at a minimum are required by a good gunner to raise the launcher to firing position and take a shot." - http://www.pmulcahy.com/tracked_apcs/us_tracked_apcs.htm "Some time" is a 10 sec for a veteran gunner. :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Sorry but it doesn’t matter how many variants “you see”. This and the other stuff I’ve already mentioned previously (post #4 above) is not going to be modelled. Now you can be disappointed, upset, whatever but it isn’t going to happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hm, i thought it will take little time to fix that. If not, OK then. May be in CMx3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibsonm Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Hm, i thought it will take little time to fix that. If not, OK then. May be in CMx3 Well as I said in Post #4: All of this was raised discussed (“argued over“ for the ones who think we are all “fanboys” on the Beta Test team) and eventually discarded as not being practical to code / not being important enough to the simulation to spend time coding, etc. That is, it wont "take little time to fix". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abneo3sierra Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 i think that the descriptions above both clearly show why it is that it wont be modeled,also. And just so you know, there ARE ways to beat TOW,that also work in the game,so it is not really an "unfair advantage" to blue,especially with other "game advanatages"that have been given to Red to counteract what in real life would be a matter of hours or at worst days before Blue smashed all resistance there. And knowing that the Brads are already "deployed" gives you the chance to take specific countermeasures against them from the start...and as Gibson mentioned, they cannot reload,unlike in real,also. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZPB II Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Are you talking about Bradleys not reloading TOWs? I thought if you unbutton it in a safe place they reload the launcher. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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