Need help with NATO mission "Red Barricades"

[bigmac1281]

I think it's the 2nd, or possibly 3rd mission in the Canadian campaign.

I'm having great difficulty with this mission, and it seems that there are 2 things that really cause me to fail.

The first thing that always seems to get my guys killed is they seem to be as blind as bats. I try to move cautiously, using either hunt or short assault commands so they have plenty of opportunity to spot the enemy, but inevitably they always end up getting massacred, often times without even ever spotting who was shooting at them. I don't know if this is new behaviour for Nato or not, because I've never had this much trouble spotting the enemy before... any tips would be appreciated.

And secondly, and maybe more importantly, is there any way for me to actually detect the IED's? Here's an example... I've fortified a 2 story building. I have 1 squad in the bottom floor, a second squad in the second floor, and my MG/ATG teams on the top floor. After much heavy fighting we've managed to supress and drive off most if not all the enemy units from the buildings surrounding the courtyard we have eyes on. All's been quiet for about a minute, so I decide to move out. I tell my squad on the bottom floor to start assaulting to the next building. They get 1 foot outside the door, and suddenly the entire building erupts in flames, and I lose nearly an entire platoon in a split second.

So is there any way at all to spot, and disarm IED's (besides killing the spies who trigger them)? I read in a readme somewhere that nearby explosions can set off IED's, but after a billion dollars worth of high explosive ammunition expended, I'm fairly sure that's not true, as I've never been able to blow one up.

So i've played through this mission twice now, and both times gotten a minor tactical failure. I can achieve the objectives, but at an absolutely horrifying cost in men and material. I need advice on the above two topics, as well as any other advice that can help me get through this godforsaken mission in relatively 1 piece.

Thanks in advance.

[BlackMoria]

You can spot the IED trigger man but basically, you have to be in the same building as him or spend a hell of amount of time observing the suspected building. I played through Red Barricades and never saw the trigger men once, so good luck with that. But I have found IED trigger men in other scenarios, so it is possible.

What did work for me was moving my tanks in front and having them hug the walls. The trigger man will set off on the tank but the two IED detonations I experienced were beside the tank and not UNDER it, so the tanks survived, although they do get banged up pretty good.

My plan was to crawl convoy style with the tanks leading, using the back streets and not the main streets. I worked my way to the left back of the map to the center back and then worked back to my objectives, trusting that most IEDs would be on the logical approaches to the objectives and not on the Syrian side of the objective.

The plan worked as I only set off two IEDs early in game with a tank (which survived both time) and I only 4 WIA in total casualties.

Normally, leading with a tank in a MOUT situation is not commonly accepted doctrine but in this case, with IEDs and RPGs ambushes, leading with a tank works because the tank can usually survive an IED strike or a RPG hit while your LAVs will not.

Work slowly and keep your infantry close to protect the armor but not so close that they become casualties if the tank sets off an IED.

Good Luck

[Jonny(FGM)]

One of the few situations where the warrior excels at, now if only we could get them to carry more than 50 HE rounds they might be good at MOUT : )

[bigmac1281]

I'll give that a go, leading with my tanks. I've not done that in the past, because maybe I'm just unlucky, but my leo's always seem to go down from just 1 or 2 rpg strikes, even to frontal armour.

I'm also considering braving the mined road, sending the pioneers out in front to mark the mines. Seems like the other two routes to the objectives are sighted in by rifles, RPG's, and IED's. Maybe the mined off section will have less eyes on it.

I'll try leading with my tanks first, i'll let you know how it went.

[Erwin]

Am still unsure how engineers work with mines in CM2. Can they now spot em BEFORE they get blowed up like in CM1?

[ChrisND]

Smoke helps a lot if you have to move near a suspected IED location. If that trigger man can't see units on the IED, he shouldn't detonate it.

[bigmac1281]

Another minor defeat. I started using my tanks a lot more agressively, and that was helping, but going too slowly. I was moving my squads up slowly, with the tanks right near them. I decided to flank all the way to the east, and go up the far eastern road. The problem is, there's no route for the tanks to go north on the east side once you get to the center point, so they were stuck there as the infantry got massacred trying to keep pushing north.

I did use smoke on a couple of the barricades, and when I reviewed the map afterwards, sure enough there were IED's there that didn't go off.

And to answer your question about engineers... nope, they don 't spot the mines. Found that out the hard way. Once my tanks were stuck on the east side, unable to move north, I sent one back around to support my engineers advancing on the west road. Areas my engineers had "cleared" (by cleared, I mean walked through on a hunt order) were not clear at all. My leo moving up the street got imobilized quickly.

Is this mission just really difficult, or what? I have never had this much trouble with any mission in CMSF. I would really love to see a video walkthrough for this mission on how to do it properly. As it sits, I'm just gonna say screw it, and move on to the next mission.

It's sure going to hurt me down the road when that platoon comes in as reinforcements in a later mission, and all they have is like 6 guys.

[bigmac1281]

Whoever made this mission is a massochist. The whole design is cruel and twisted. You're advancing from the south, and almost all the doors into the buildings are on the north side, meaning you have to either blast your way into every building (not enough ammunition to do that for the whole level) or you have to expose your troops to fire as they try to get into the building.

And I'm finding that all of the good 2 story overwatch positions that you can get are covered by at least 2 different syrian units, so they're not really effective overwatch positions at all. As soon as your guys open fire from them, they're quickly supressed and massacred.

*sigh* sorry, i'm just venting. I've been playing CMSF ever since it came out, and honestly consider myself a pretty good player and tactician, and have never had a problem with any mission until this one. It's making me feel quite noobish.

[bodkin]

I think Paper Tiger made the Canadian campaign, and it does sound like one of his diabolical creations. I haven't played it yet so I can't comment too much but I remember him saying previously about his unoffical missions that he makes them to suit his own tastes for a challenge and then releases them to the public to make up their own opinion. Maybe he's still apllying this philosophy to the official missions which I believe shouldn't be so hard to cause rage/frustration to gamers that have bought the game for some enjoyment in their precious gaming time.

Don't take that the wrong way PT I like most of your stuff, except I still have nightmares over 'It ain't half hot mum'.

[BlackMoria]

bigmac1281: I am at work but after I get home, I will do up a map that shows you the route I took. Once past the initial IED ambush, the going was fairly easy because I was then attacking the Syrians from their rear.

The caveat is that it worked for the battle plan I got. I don't know how many battleplans the Syrian side so there are no quarantees that my route is best in all circumstances.

[bigmac1281]

Thanks BM. I've given up on that mission for now, accepted the minor defeat, and moved on to the next.

But I'll definately be returning for another playthrough of this campaign.

I will have my revenge, oh yes I will.

[snake_eye]

Hi BIGMAC1281,

Don't have any regret for the Red Barricades fight. However, if you want to know how you failed, as I did as a matter of fact, the following AAR will be of some interest to you.

Red Barricades AAR:

I did not expect anything good from that battle, since it was to be a MOUT fighting in town with barricades to reach, which would probably be in correctly set killing grounds.

The result, playing Blue Real Time Elite was at TLR, without surprise a Major Defeat. The losses were high:

Blue 18 KIA Red 10, 21 WIA 16, 0 MIA 1, 1 TKL 0, 5 AVL 0, 0 OVL 1

However the RED, BLUE, WHITE and GREEN objectives were obtained. The enemy did not get any points for the WEST and the CENTRE WEST But, at a higher cost, than acceptable had to be paid for that meagre result.

The terrorist leader Zubromawl was not killed and or found. Neither the AA threat was eliminated.

The screen shots taken during the fight are showing that the firs casualties were taken on the left road. A Leopard then a LAV taken by an AT team hidden in the far away houses, slightly on the right of the road.

Besides that, everything went fine up to WHITE without any feared problems from the IED at the barricades as expected.

The troops, advancing alongside the LAV’s and or the tank remaining. They really began to take heavy fire, when they went on the roofs of the higher houses, parallel to the road running from BLUE, RED to WHITE.

I did not understood, at the time, why they had their casualties rising all of a sudden.

Meanwhile, I had a LAV making a recon by fire on the far right corner of the map near QALA Road, just to be destroyed by what I thought was another AT team.

I then tried a Recon by fire by another LAV from the far left corner of the map from the GARAGE toward ABOU AHMED Road. Despite being cautious it too was destroyed. I had not the time to take a snap shot, but believe me it was the result of the ZU-23 AA pickup. I had completely forgotten the fact that an AA threat to be destroyed, had been mentioned in the briefing and more, in the North West sector of the town.

That AA platform, which I failed to destroy, is alone responsible for the appalling losses taken as well by the men than by the AVL. It destroyed probably 3 or 4 of them.

If the IED did not do any harm, that might be because the triggerman was cut down, but I have no recollection of having seen one.

If I can give, one advice, it will be the following : Stay low and don’t seek higher ground till you have shot to piece that ZU-23 AA Platform. The men don’t have the needed firepower to overcome it.

Cheers

[pazuzusmiles]

I like the challenge..I already feel like blue side has unfair advantage with all that awesome war machinery as compared to what the syrians have...but yeah that battle has kicked my butt as well and would love to hear about blackmorias route...I refuse to say unbeatable yet!! Soon the teacher will be the master!(diabolical laughter)

[pazuzusmiles]

er, uhh the student will be the teacher or some such thing...DYSLEXIA: ITS NOT JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE.

[bigmac1281]

The worst part is, both times I've played it certain IED's have always been in the same spots... So one COULD probably beat it easily if one was to avoid those spots, but I don't like to win by being gamey.

I think the key to winning this map is to thrust north up the center, with heavy armour giving mucho supressive fire (and avoiding the IED that's always there, of course). Control the center courtyard, and you should be able to take the eastern one.

The west approach is no go, the road is mined, so you can't bring in your vehicles.

The east approach is doable, but your vehicles can only go half way up the map before they can't go any further.

Basically I think a heavy thrust up the center with heavy supressive fire from your armour will do it. Maybe a little pre sighted mortar / artillery support at the beginning of the map on likely RPG team spots. (there's no preserve conditions on this map, I don't think. Level the damn place!) I'll give it a shot once I'm done the campaign again.

[Dietrich]

The east approach is doable, but your vehicles can only go half way up the map before they can't go any further.

Actually, the MBTs as well as the LAVs can go through the pickups-and-taxis barricades, albeit slowly.

[Erwin]

In good ol' CM1 a heavier vehicle could push a lighter vehicle out of the way. You saying that you can't do that in CM2???

[BlackMoria]

Here is the route I took which resulted in me getting a total victory with only 4 casualties. Note my earlier post about that.

I am just showing the route and not any enemy or IED locations to avoid any spoilers. It worked against the Syrian battleplan I faced so there are no guarantees.