Lanzfeld Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I thought I read about this in another thread but I cannot find it. I had my Demo squad chasing a T-62 all around the park on the El Hawk map and they would use grenades on the tank and grenade launchers but never the Demo charges. Do I have to use the Blast command for them to close assault with the charges? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 They couldn't do it before the v1.21 patch. But they appear to be able to demo charge bunkers finally (a kind of stationary 'vehicle' in the game), and one or two posters have reported demo charges being used against vehicles too (targeted independently by the AI). The circumstances to test it happens so rarely that its hard to say definitely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Yeah... Just played with it for awhile and I could NOT get them to do it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 The only time i see my troops use satchels is when i give them a blast command.I never seen them throw it on bunkers or tanks,all they threw were grenades. If other people said they saw it then I'll watch out for it.It would be good to know what the conditions need to be for this to happen.Next time i come across a bunker I'll get my engineers to go and see if they can throw a satchel at it or blast it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 I just realized that the demo charges these guys carry are not the same as, say, a satchel charge from WWII. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt. Ryan Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 They are demo charges. Engineers have to buy the full version for additional functionality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I sure hope engineers toss satchels as readily in CMN as they did in CMx1. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Smack Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 After a quick test it seems that troops with demo charges will toss them only at occupied bunkers. If the bunker is unoccupied they only seem to use grenades. I put some tanks next to the bunkers as well but the troops never engaged them with demo charges. steve-o 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Yeh, I just ran a demo charge test too. Couldn't get engineers to use demo charges on tanks no matter what I did. Interestingly, I got no hint of that other complaint about red tanks spotting blue units hiding in adjacent buildings. Red tanks (T62s) were obilvious to the blue units right next to them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Smack Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Well the test i ran i had static T-55s. The first test was done in hotseat and I gave the tanks covering arcs so they didn't respond to the infantry right next to them. The next test I did in real time and forgot about the tanks. They had no problem wiping my infantry out, of course they were not in buildings so that might be the difference. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I sure hope engineers toss satchels as readily in CMN as they did in CMx1. I hope not. Engineer satchel charges are heavy, and not well designed for throwing. AIUI, when used as an improvised AT weapon they weighed about 10 lbs. So I really doubt they tossed them very far -- it was probably more a matter of some brave soul running up to the tank and maybe throwing the satchel a few feet, under the tracks or onto the engine deck. This was also probably necessary because they lacked a shaped charge or contact fuse, so a satchel charge really needed to land on top of or under the tank to be effective -- if it hit the side it would probably just fall to the ground, and at best throw the track. IIRC, in CMx1, satchel charges can be "thrown" up to 20 meters or so, which I think was an abstraction intended to represent a squad member running up to the tank and placing the charge. But IMHO, this made them unrealistically effective when compared to IAT weaponry that was actually designed to be thrown at least a dozen meters or so, like Panzerwurfmines and Gammon Grenades. Hopefully, in CM:N, with 1:1 representation we'll get the differentiation. I think Demo charges should still be effective against tanks in certain situations, but not as useful as they were in CMx1. Cheers, YD 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryujin Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Hopefully in CM:N the blast command will work on tanks, causing a squad member to actually run out to the tank to toss the charge and run back, obviously allowing for them to be shot in the process, making them a bit more realistically effective than a 20m throw. That's how I'd do it anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 12, 2009 Author Share Posted December 12, 2009 Also CM1 seemed to neglect that, IRL, the poor bastard running up and tossing the bag-O-charges had a very good chance of getting caught up in the blast. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wengart Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 A while back I had a lone engineer (brit) toss two hand grenades at a T-72, and then throw a demo charge at it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxnoctum Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I hope not. Engineer satchel charges are heavy, and not well designed for throwing. AIUI, when used as an improvised AT weapon they weighed about 10 lbs. So I really doubt they tossed them very far -- it was probably more a matter of some brave soul running up to the tank and maybe throwing the satchel a few feet, under the tracks or onto the engine deck. This was also probably necessary because they lacked a shaped charge or contact fuse, so a satchel charge really needed to land on top of or under the tank to be effective -- if it hit the side it would probably just fall to the ground, and at best throw the track. IIRC, in CMx1, satchel charges can be "thrown" up to 20 meters or so, which I think was an abstraction intended to represent a squad member running up to the tank and placing the charge. But IMHO, this made them unrealistically effective when compared to IAT weaponry that was actually designed to be thrown at least a dozen meters or so, like Panzerwurfmines and Gammon Grenades. Hopefully, in CM:N, with 1:1 representation we'll get the differentiation. I think Demo charges should still be effective against tanks in certain situations, but not as useful as they were in CMx1. Cheers, YD I guess... But it was so much fun and incredibly satisfying! I guess it could be replaced if Battlefront manages to come up with an awesome anim that actually SHOWS a soldier desperately breaking off and running to drop the satchel on the tank/building/enemy squad. Now THAT would be badass :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Steve could put an end to this question and I cant understand why he has not chimed in yet. Either its in there or it isnt. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 I recently tried this to test this exact thing. I only did it once and the demo charges flew without more than a "target" order. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hmmmm....again British. Have we seen US troops do this at all? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 Hmmmm....again British. Have we seen US troops do this at all? This screen shot is from the base game: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 I was using the normal MOUT troops with the demo charges and in these pictures we have engineers. Maybe that is the difference? Testing on the way! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 In testing I had success with American engineers but I have not had MOUT troops do this yet. Also....the conditions required for the engineers to use the demo on a tank is not very straightforward. Not sure if it is required that they use ALL of their grenades first or not. Maybe this is to simulate the incredible bravery required to use the charges. Fun as hell testing this stuff! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 That is sweet!Very cool little feature. Now i know Engineers could be a very useful tool in hitting Tanks in urban areas or other close quarters.That is good to know. Thanks for the pic and laying this little mystery low to it's grave. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 In testing I had success with American engineers but I have not had MOUT troops do this yet. Also....the conditions required for the engineers to use the demo on a tank is not very straightforward. Not sure if it is required that they use ALL of their grenades first or not. Maybe this is to simulate the incredible bravery required to use the charges. Fun as hell testing this stuff! Do you have either a saved game file or saved scenario that you are using? And can you send it to me? I am PMing my email address. I stink using the editor and don't know how to create a battle with the units you are talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 I just took the El Hawl map and put in my own units and red orders. Red has 2 T-62's and a platoon of green troops and a BMP-1. They start at one end of the map with orders to go to a a large area on their side of the city including the park. The end result is that everytime I play they go to a random different spot. Cool....I never know where I will find them. Good for AT practice in the city but also good for MOUT. Sometimes I catch them on the move, sometimes they ambush me. Also demostrates how easy tanks are to ambush in the city WITHOUT javelins. The T-62, however, is a hard bugger to kill! I have seen 5 SMAW shots hit from sides and rear and still no kill. Anyway....I just add whatever unit on the blue side a I want to test. Engineers, scouts, whatever..... If you really want it I will send it to you. It is a little unrefined because I just test with it. BTW...you should really learn to use the editor. I put this off forever but I am so glad I did as it is very rewarding now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 14, 2009 Author Share Posted December 14, 2009 More testing with US engineers. Very hard to get them to throw those charges. Some findings when they do throw (May or may not be fact): 1. Seems you must be only one action spot away. No further. Scary close to tank. 2. I cannot get them to throw over a wall. REAL SHAME as one of they only ways to get close to tank when you are out of smoke is to sneak up on target tank behind wall and hide where tank cannot see me. Then pop up and throw over wall to kill tank. Like I said, cant get them to do this. 3. Likewise I cannot get them to throw out of a buildings even when right next to tank.Again this is unfortunate because this is the other way to sneak up on them. Please others....add to the knowledge if you can! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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