Stalins Organ Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 A new species of bird is emerging as a result of natural selection - albeit the stimulus is man made. I can't imagine it is the earliest example we have of this, but I thought I'd get this article out there for those who need it to counter various unbelievers..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 Well since I'm here, this is a perfectly good example of why the carbon unit infestation of this planet is becoming increasingly "common senseless". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted December 3, 2009 Author Share Posted December 3, 2009 Yes, you being here is certainly proof of that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Didn't I say that?:confused: Must be an echo!:eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 One only has to point at a cow or a dog for proof of a similar process of evolution. Domestication was a concept that also informed Darwin's theories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogface Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Hoolaman I think you are correct. I just pointed at my cat, and he offered no proof of a similar process of evolution. In fact he did not say anything, but just blinked at me and walked away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Dogs (ie. canis familiaris) may have different traits between breeds, but they are still the same species. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costard Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 So they're identifying genetic differences in the make-up of the adapting group following analysis of the blood samples. Are these gene sequences at all present in the parent group? To be a different species, a bird would have to be incapable of producing viable offspring when mated with the other group? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stalins Organ Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 like it says....wait another 100k-1000k years to see... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hoolaman I think you are correct. I just pointed at my cat, and he offered no proof of a similar process of evolution. In fact he did not say anything, but just blinked at me and walked away. A cat will never give the game away. Dogs (ie. canis familiaris) may have different traits between breeds, but they are still the same species. These birdies will be for millenia to come as well. With all respect to SO for posting an interesting article, man's domestication and selective breeding of animals (even if they are still technically wild) is not really news. This process seems no different to penning in some wild cows and shooting the ones that don't like it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimthane Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 FWIW the evolution objectors who know anything will protest that they do not dispute that sufficient variation and selection can lead to animals that can no longer interbreed (microevolution). What they deny is that this process could have led to the extraordinary range of creature types that are found in the world given the time and starting materials. Perfectly rational non-religious types of my acquaintance find this hard to swallow. Sadly, examples of currently speciating populations are not going to convince most sceptics that the process is sufficiently powerful to explain all of nature. I think rightly so. The evidence for macro-evolution does not come from looking at mating patterns in birds. These days the best evidence is from the DNA, which knocks you over the head to hammer in the point that everything is related by descent (of course Darwin had evidence too, though perhaps less unequivocal). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affentitten Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 The evidence for macro-evolution does not come from looking at mating patterns in birds. These days the best evidence is from the DNA, which knocks you over the head to hammer in the point that everything is related by descent Like, derrr....everything is inter-related because it was all created by God! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mididoctors Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 macro evolution of sea gulls is evident in so far breeds of gull can mate with the breeds close by geographically in longitudinal zones but as you travel round the globe the breeds are not viable with there pairings opposite (or somefink) genetic drift 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimthane Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 "Like, derrr....everything is inter-related because it was all created by God!" Another popular attitude, but the data does not just suggest things are related like Ferarris are related, it suggests they are related by descent. Of course some will hold the slightly more sophisticated attitude that God arranged the geological strata and apparent lineages of animals to test our faith in his word, but this leaves them in the uncomfortable position of trusting in a deliberate and wholesale deceiver (for whom the bible has another name!) "macro evolution of sea gulls... " Regrettably, ring species like gulls do not show macroevolution - they are another example of incipient speciation that many creationists would not dispute. Yes you can see animals that have trouble breeding together, but, they say, show me a gull turning into a lizard. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mididoctors Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 how about whales there is fossil evidence for walking versions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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