Lanzfeld Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 I have noticed this little AI "quirk" for quite some time and I wanted to bring it to the spotlight for the next patch. I play WEGO but the problem is still there in RT as well. Also, it does not matter if squad is conscript or elite. Now on to the problem... I often use my RPG (7 or 29) teams to do hit and run or ambush tactics on enemy tanks. My prefered technique in WEGO is to set a target with a 5 second pause then put a "fast" movement away from the position into some cover. The idea is to make a quick aimed shot and then haul ass outa there before the inevitable hail of counterfire hits home. The 5 seconds is often enough for a shot but sometime I allow 10 seconds if the RPG guy is not lined up. Anyway... the shot occurs and everyone takes off as planned except for the RPG shooter. He is still planted in the same spot as he was before reloading his weapon. He usually dies there. Sometimes you get REALLY lucky and he shoots EXACTLY as the 5 seconds is up (about 1 in 20) then he will run first and reload later. This seems to be a quirk that only happens, as I said, if the round leaves the barrel the instant the fast command is triggered. If he has a half second left before running he will start the reload process while his squadmates flee. As you know, the reloading process can take 5 to 10 seconds. Dead Guy!!! I suggest a tweak in the next patch that cures this little frustration by having any troop that is issued a "fast" command stop reloading and RUN. As soon as he gets to the next waypoint that is not a "fast" waypoint he can take the time to reload. This would seem to be a more realistic way of executing a "pop shot" with a RPG or, in the very exciting future, a bazooka, PIAT, or schreck. I am not a programmer but I would hope that this would'nt be too hard to tweak. I really hope it is not because such a little fix would really make a huge difference in reality IMHO. Maybe a fix could be if a unit has a "fast" command in the next 5 seconds they will not reload??? So...Shoot---->Run---->Reload! Thanks for listening BFC and thanks for the patches! Lanzfeld 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 yes this was brought up coutless times so far. i think if BFC could "tell" the TacAi of these teams to "abort" reloading as soon as it has to carry out a movement order this would be done with. and its not only red in this case, same goes for blue javelin teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Crap...I was concerned that it was brought up before because if it has and they didnt fix it then it is probably hard to fix. Bummer.... double bummer for the zooks, PIATs, and schrecks. It will be like a little extra handicapp for AT squads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ive noticed this to.I tried moving them out of the position and also the Hide button after the shot but the AT guy keeps himself exposed to long and then gets shot most of the time.Then i need to sneak in and do buddy aid on him to get my rocket launcher back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Yes, and the hero that runs in to do buddy aid (and to grab the most important AT asset) usually gets ventilated in the same manor. Triple bummer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 It's a good point. Does anyone have a save showing just this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 29, 2009 Author Share Posted November 29, 2009 Sorry I do not have a save. This is VERY easy to replicate in any test scenario. Just area fire on a building for 5 or 10 seconds followed by a fast move. You will see you everyone run away except your RPG guy as he is busy reloading. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 in any case, one can produce a save showing this in less then 2 minutes. at what point you would like to have me save it? befor the shot, while reloadeing or after death of the poor chap? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 in any case, one can produce a save showing this in less then 2 minutes. at what point you would like to have me save it? befor the shot, while reloadeing or after death of the poor chap? Before the shot please. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Al Huqf Engagement 001.zip: Your file of 474.8 KB bytes exceeds the forum's limit of 97.7 KB for this filetype. well, rapidshare it is...btw. is 97.7kb for zip is a joke? http://rapidshare.com/files/313974719/Al_Huqf_Engagement_001.bts.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I have to agree. It negates the tactical value of a fire and forget Javelin when the operator insists on reloading on the spot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 OK, I've raised it as a concern. No idea what they'll do with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 Thank you Other Means. It effects javelins yes but my real worry is the super lightweight stuff like the RPG-7 and the (soon) bazooka where you know people, in some cercumstances, would shoot and run. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandur Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 dont forget the SWAM teams in marines module, they suffer from this too to a certain degree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted November 30, 2009 Author Share Posted November 30, 2009 So do all the AT teams. Even the ATGM teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schmoly War Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Voted up!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Other Means, Did you ever hear anything back from them after you submitted the "problem". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's something we've been aware of for a long time. The problem is this is not an easy thing to "fix" because there are potential problems with reversing it. But yes, we do agree that if your intent is to "shoot and scoot" the current implementation isn't all that good. We have a larger fix in mind, but I agree it would be nice to get a temporary fix in the game for now. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 It's something we've been aware of for a long time. The problem is this is not an easy thing to "fix" because there are potential problems with reversing it. But yes, we do agree that if your intent is to "shoot and scoot" the current implementation isn't all that good. We have a larger fix in mind, but I agree it would be nice to get a temporary fix in the game for now. Steve I thought the "FAST" order was supposed to tell soldiers to drop and everything and run? Would it be possible to implement that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 If it were that easy it would have been done. Thanks for the reply Steve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souldierz Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 If possible id like to throw in another little AI adjustment idea to see if it might be possible or if its in the works. Nothing big, Its about vehicle reloads and it catch's me off guard from time to time while playing. Best to describe it is with me controlling the MK19 Stryker vs a Bmp. I just laid down area fire on a small house with my MK19 Styker until the threat was done then had my Stryker hide behind some houses.The Stryker stayed there for about 20 mins with no action no shots fired.Then a Bmp positioned itself in a good spot and pinned some of my troops on another part of the map. After laying all kinds of smoke i mobilized my MK19 stryker i had hiding to go flank all the way around and end up on the same street as the BMP but behind the BMP to hit its rear with MKs. Heres where the problem came in.My MK stryker took 4 shots nailing the bmp in the rear, but then had to reload.I watched in horror as the BMP turret slowly turned around 180 degrees and gave my troops a good lesson in why they should always have there guns fully loaded and ready to rock. I was wondering if it would be possible to make the troops automatically reload their weapons after a couple minutes or so if they have no visual contacts or no fighting, so they can maintaining readiness for any moment at any giving time. I also fell victim to this against rpg squads and also as opfor with bmps and brdms.Just a little issue that got my attention, but aside from that i love this game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drescher Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Had this sort of problems also. Now i wouldnt want the ai to reload after being stationary fo a given time, as it will by chance happen in a bad moment just like you described at least once. Instead manual reload command would do the trick, so that in a minute of quite you would order the unit to reload. As a sort of workaround you could, when in a safe place area fire till the crew reloads. This works better in RT though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 A manual reload option is a bad idea. Trust me People would not be happy with having to manually request this because it is yet another responsibility on their shoulders. A responsibility that they will often forget to carry out, especially because you first have to be aware that the unit needs to reload. That's not an easy piece of information to convey. Long, long, long ago... way back in the misty days of CM:SF Alpha, we required the player to manually reload vehicle machineguns that were not normally crewed. For example the MGs on top of Abrams or Strykers. All the player had to do was unbutton and the MG would be reloaded. After suffering through months of testers reporting that their MGs didn't work we yanked the feature because every time Charles looked at the "bug" it was because the player didn't reload the gun. So nope, we don't think it's a good idea to have manual reloading The problem is there needs to be a predictable point where the TacAI can reload the weapon *and* the player can't interrupt the process. Both are mandatory. Right now we have that... right after the weapon fires. The problem is that shoot-n-scoot is compromised. Again, we have a solution in mind. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted December 6, 2009 Author Share Posted December 6, 2009 Or at least if said stryker with Mk-19 starts to reload in the middle of firing on BMP then the Tac AI will back the stryker out of LOS?? or is this already in there? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Steve, You wouldn't have to make all reloads mandatory. Certainly I want my gunners to reload automatically when their weapon is empty. What we are talking about here, as far as I'm concerned, is the OPTION to have the gunner reload at my orders when the weapon ISN'T empty. I understand that the TacAI can't easily handle figuring out good points in time to reload. That's what MY job is. TacAI can however easily tell when the gun is dry and react accordingly, meaning fill 'er up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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